Hermes Citron Noir

[The Knize]

Anyone have any experience with this one? Thoughts.

I have sniffed it from a tester once. Seemed very lemon forward with some tenacity, which is unusual for a citrus scent, although some of the reviews seem to say it lacks longevity. The reviews talk about it as a woody citrus, with smoke and black tea notes. All of that sounds great. Also guaiac wood, which I do not know so much as a scent note, but sounds intriguing. I have been a long-time fan of Hermes D'orange Vert. This one seems to have the same perfumer, Christine Nagel, who seems very cool. but I do not recognize much of her other work. I suppose I am drawn to the fact that this is the same perfumer and another intensely citrus scent.

I guess I am concerned about quickly growing tired of Citron Noir, or of once I have it, it seeming kind of simple and uninteresting. It seems to get some great and some bad reviews, which kind of intrigues me, too! Although some of the bad reviews seem along the lines of this being designed too much to be a crowd pleaser rather than anything very original or exciting.

 

[The Knize]

I went ahead and ordered this one. I will report back after I have some experience with it.

Folks around here are always asking about citrus scents that have tenacity, which I tend to think does not exist, except for, perhaps, Issy. Maybe this one will have some, though. Some reviews suggest not. And I am interested in the guaiac wood notes. Black tea notes sound like Creed Himalaya, which in theory I like, but I never ended up actually wearing much.

I did not find a review of this scent by anyone I know very well. Come back Luca Turin, come back to us now!

 

[The Knize]

Yikes, LT did not like it at all:

"Nagel has had to come up with some. Citron Noir was a minor disaster, a tremendous lemon topnote followed immediately afterwards by a dismal woody-amber worthy of stuff I see on supermarket shelves called Str8. These damned woody ambers are now being used as prosthetic extenders for all manner of notes, in the vain hope that punters will be sufficiently distracted not to notice that the fragrance has morphed from flesh to metal. The only difference between crap perfumes and good ones in this respect is that the good ones taper in the nightmare more tactfully."

And as far as I can tell, LT does like D'Orange Vert.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

There’s something joyous about watching someone have an argument with themself, and lose. My favourite thread for quite some time.

It’s not over yet, though. You might still love the fragrance. Hermès are usually pretty acceptable.

 

[The Knize]

There’s something joyous about watching someone have an argument with themself, and lose. My favourite thread for quite some time.

It’s not over yet, though. You might still love the fragrance. Hermès are usually pretty acceptable.

That is wonderful! Thanks for posting! I am glad you enjoyed my agonizing! It used to be that I never bought frags blind, and it is still fairly rare. Admittedly this is not quite blind.

I think you are correct that it is not over and that I might still love this frag. I certainly agree that Hermes is usually pretty acceptable.

I feel about Luca Turin as to scents, similarly to how I felt about Roger Ebert as to movies and feel about Robert Parker as to wines. The three of them were so influential on my early development in appreciating scents, movies, and wines that I do not know whether I actually almost always agree with them because my tastes are similar to theirs or my tastes wer made by them, or I am just that much influenced by them. I can definitely think of wines I disagree with Parker about. He is a fan of certain sherries, I can wholly live without. There must be something Ebert liked or dissed where I disagreed with him. I suppose I am not as much of a fan of Raging Bull as Ebert and many others are. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of too many scents about which I thought LT was way off. I love his dis of Creed vetiver scents--"not vetiver." He gave three stars to Pen's Blenheim Bouquet, one of my all time favorite scents, but three stars is not so bad. He likes Lolita Lompicka Pour Homme way more than I do. I do not know that vintage Derby is the all time great frag he thinks it is. I do think he gave five stars to Knize Ten, which I sure agree with and not every reviewer does. I have a slight memory that he was not as generous with some of the Creed scent I really do like, like Cuir de Russie and Vintage Tabarome. I have to admit that "dismal woody amber" and the idea of that being a cheap, artificial extender, does give me pause!

I think LT is pretty good at spotting over used, artifical smelling notes. But, it does seem odd to me that Hermes would put out anything that seemed cheap and artificial!

We shall see. It is fun.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I suspect it is very difficult to find a fragrance twin - someone who will react to every fragrance the way you will. Scents, in their infinite permutations, are too complex, as well as being closely associated with our unique, individual memories and experiences. And we all seem to have varied sensitivity to different smells. On top of that, I find all these perceptions and effects can change over time.

Perhaps Luca associates some of those particular notes, or combinations of notes, with things he has experienced as being coarse or ordinary, or his body simply reacts less harmoniously to certain notes.

I agree with you. Though none of Hermès’ fragrances are really favoirites for me, I have never encountered one that wasn’t executed well. They all seem exactly as they were intended to be, are well-judged, and delivered with restraint and discernment.

Or you’re going to get it and tell us this one is fermented turd in a bottle. Even so, people wear Lilac Vegetal here and someone will love it.

 

[The Knize]

I suspect it is very difficult to find a fragrance twin

I completely agree with that, for the reasons you cite and probably others! For that matter, as you reference, my own tastes have probably evolved over time. Although my tastes have probably gotten broader over time.

Or you’re going to get it and tell us this one is fermented turd in a bottle.

Nah. I did test one spray of it. And I have not seen or heard anything in any review that indicates there is something assertedly foul smelling to anyone in this scent! Over time I does learn a bit about reading reviews. I think it is hard to tell exactly what a scent is going to smell like from reviews, much less whether one is going to like the scent, but you can usually get an idea of what it is like if you put some effort into picking out notes from frags or, say, essential oils, over time

Ha! I like Lilac Vegetal fine, not that I really wear it. More because of the flowery dry down. I do not think I have anything against the rather animalic top notes. I am fine with most animalic notes. Most evolve into something less unsavory. And they are notes that scents traditionally have.

Fun to think about and to try to articulate!

Re Hermes, one review I came across, and I may have mentioned this earlier, seemed to say the reviewer thought this scent was an effort by Hermes/Nagal to come up with a scent that was more accessible to the average scent user than most Hermes scents. Thus, the criticism was that Hermes was going too much for the lowest common denominator, because it was thought that folks were turned off by Hermes smelling too sophisticated/rich. I am not sure I get that. I think you put it well. Hermes scents to me seem restrainted and discerning. That does not seem excessively richy, rich somehow, to me. D'Orange Vert, for instance, does dry down pretty quickly to something that is pretty much an orange scent.

I was trying to think whether there were scents that seemed too agressively rich smelling to me. Maybe the current Houbigant Fougere is that way. Overly complex, perhaps.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

Yes, for me Hermès (usually) leans away from contrived complexity and toward nature and simplicity. With most of them I think they give you a single dominant natural component, supported by a lighter, sympathetic background ensemble. This is what I like - I like a thing to smell like a thing. And an actual thing, not a contrived thing. A neroli fragrance should smell like neroli, placed in a complimentary setting. Complex fragrances just smell anonymous to me - it’s just perfume or cologne then, and it doesn’t mean anything to me.

I used to wear Eau d’Orange Verte all the time, by the way. It’s just that kind of thing. Simple, natural, smells like something I like to smell, but it’s there for me to smell and not for the entire room.

This stuff is what I respect about Hermès perfumes, but it’s probably why they are underappreciated. Perhaps people think they are offering something that is common or obvious, but it really isn’t. Sort of like when you listen to a David Gilmour guitar solo and it seems so obvious when you hear each following note - but nobody else seems able to play like that so there’s much more skill, creativity, and melodic sensibility than it may appear. People on internet fragrance sites want ‘bangers’ with ‘sillage’ and ‘longevity’, which is lovely for getting them noticed, I’m sure. But I really hate to inflict sillage on passers-by.

I’d be surprised if Hermès Citron Noir really does turn into a heavy, generic wood fragrance. Though I am suspicious of any fragrance with the word ‘noir’ in the name. Many people seem to be very sensitive to certain woody notes, I think.

Anyway, I’ve worked myself up now into a heightened curiosity to hear what it’s like when you’ve spent more time with it. I’m not especially a citrus guy but perhaps that’s a reason why I should add one.

 

[The Knize]

I pretty much like them all, when it comes to scents. I appreciate the more soloflore (if you will) and/or nuanced approach, but also complex interplays of notes, at least when done right, interestingly. I, too, prefer Gilmour over, say, Satriani or even EVH. But I also love Hendrix and, I suppose, a classical symphony. And, these days, I am liking the dirt someone like Billy Gibbons brings to the party.

I do not think sillage and longevity mean as much to me as they seem to mean to some folks. Although I guess I like there to be some thing left after a few hours. I am not one to be reapplying scents during the day! And, not, I am not looking to impress someone simply walking by with my choice of scents!

One thing I really do like, that I find less in modern scents than classic scents it seems, is I like a scent to evolve. I seem to come across more scents these days that are linear. That is really not the way scents came to be. There were top notes, middle notes, and basenotes, in part because that is what the ingrediants did! Citron Noir may turn out to be very linear!

Though I am suspicious of any fragrance with the word ‘noir’ in the name.

Actually the back story on the name is that there is apparently a "black lemon" in certain cuisine (Indonesian?) that is lemony, smoky, and maybe tea-like, that this scent is trying to emulate. Citron noir, is simply the name of that ingredient, although, it is obviously calling up other associations such as nighttime activities, such as parties, I would think. I like the name and the idea that the scent is inspired by an actual black lemon! Seems hip to me.

Many people seem to be very sensitive to certain woody notes, I think.

And to such things as leather, which is usually birch tar, and tobacco. I suppose smoke, too. I really like a nice leather scent, and they generally have longevity to spare! I do not get the impression this scent has anything like the power of birch tar.

Anyway, I’ve worked myself up now into a heightened curiosity to hear what it’s like when you’ve spent more time with it. I’m not especially a citrus guy but perhaps that’s a reason why I should add one.

I promise to report back!

 

[Mr. Shavington]

Wow, I learned something new. Never heard of black lemon before. Just googled it and it sounds like would be an interesting scent. Seems it has a fresh, sweet, smoky, fermented scent.

 

[The Knize]

A Persian cuisine thing apparently. A type of dried lime. I like the concept! I had sure never heard of it.

 

[The Knize]

I should have this scent on Saturday, Jan. 6. I watched a bunch more video reviews. Seems like a very polarizing scent, although I do not understand why the strong negative feelings. Folks who like or love it--some say they are obsessed with it! that is enough to grab my attention right there!--praise the opening notes as perfect, natural lemon, consistent with other Hermes scents' transparency as to primary top notes, evolving smoothly into wood, tea, and smoky (some say incense, too) notes with good tenacity and complexity.

Those who do not like it say the lemon--which is really lemon, lime, and citron--seems artificial, and, I guess, a bit harsh, and seem to largely say that after the opening notes the scent falls away to very little of anything, with little tenacity or projection. Some seemed to think the scent was overly simple. No one seems to say that anything but the perceived artificiality of the top citrus notes actually smells bad.

One reviewer complained that the scent had blue notes like Sauvage and Chanel Bleu, although not as intensely as those scents, and that to him those--incredibly popular!!--notes have been overplayed at this point, and he did not understand why Hermes would bother. No one else seems to mention much similarity to Sauvage or Bleu. I think one reviewer mentioned expecting such similarities, I suppose given the color of the bottle, but they weren't there.

Those are some contradictory reviews! This will be fun!

 

[The Knize]

The scent came a day early. It is going to take some time for me to fully form an opinion on it. The top note lemon, which on closer sniffing is actually a citrus accord with lime, orange, and citron, but dominated by lemon, is as beautiful and compelling as the reviews indicated, and it persists to some extent throughout, great tenacity for lemon.

Next up is tea, smoke, incense, and, I guess, wood. I do not get a lot of wood. Not sure about tea. Maybe an oolong. The smoke is such that my wife asked me if I smelled smoke or had lit a match.Smells like burned Japanese incense. Not an incense note I like. Reminds me of a rather rare scent I liked at first but did not like at all after awhile. Something "de oro," as I recall.
Really dominates. I did not get any blue notes.

Tenacity seems long and moderatrely strong to me. As I indicatef the lemon does a welcome bit of a comeback.

Who knows. I may come to really like rhis one.

 

[The Knize]

I thought of the scent that Citron Noir reminds me of in the heart notes that I really do not like--MPG Ambre Dore. I guess what I am smelling that I do not like is the woody amber Luca Turin complains about in the quote from him I set out above. I do not think of myself as disliking ambers. And I have not thought of either CN or AN as being that woody, but I must be wrong. I have a lot of trust in LT's nose.

 

[The Knize]

I have worn this scent quite often now. It seems to go on fairly light and I seem to apply quite a bit of it. I guess it is supposed to be an EDC.

I am not much of a believer in skin chemistry, but I find that when I actually wear this one, rather than, say, spray it on an arm and monitor it as it dries down, I do not notice burned incense/cheap woody amber notes during the day on me. My nose must get rather acclimated to it, as it would to any scent, but if I make an effort to smell it, I get lemon and, I hate to admit, after all the writing I did earlier, rather "bluish" notes a bit like Sauvage or even water notes something like Cool Water. Seems classy. Very nice. Certainly not a disaster.

I think it earns a place next to Hermes D'orange Verte. I like the latter better, but it is one of my very favorite scents.

 

[The Knize]

spray it on an arm and monitor it as it dries down,

I finally got around to doing this. I think this is a good way to explore a scent. It keeps one's nose from getting completely acclimated to a scent. I have been wearing this scent for, what?, weeks now.

I will keep it short. I really like this scent. Very wearable. Luca Turin had said: "Citron Noir was a minor disaster, a tremendous lemon topnote followed immediately afterwards by a dismal woody-amber worthy of stuff I see on supermarket shelves called Str8." I do not get this "minor disaster" coming from LT. I completely agree "tremendous lemon topnote," although it is a bit more complex citrus than simply lemon. And it does quickly evolve into what LT thinks of as "dismal woody-amber." I do not know what I would call that heart/middle accord, but I do not love it either. I guess I would say smokey and a bit incensey in the middle, too, but I like those notes. But the scent keeps evolving, and I would say that the rather refined dry down has some incense, some amber, I suppose, some nice wood, and definitely some bluish notes, while retaining some nice citrus, where most scents with a nice lemony opening tend to have that note dissapate after not too long. Nice tenacity at as I indicated a refined level. with lots of things subtly going on. Classy scent. I would say expert scent-making. Props to Christine Nagel. Seems to me she must have put some effort into this scent and it shows.