Here’s my next question - Switching from electric to gas?

[Toothpick]

We have a gas hook up outside of the house. AFAIK it’s still in working order. The house before us had gas, but when they built this one it’s all electric.

Let’s say I was to add a gas line to the house. Put the dryer and water heater on it for starters.

How would you go about calculating the savings and if it would be worth it?

Here’s what I’m thinking……

I first need to somehow figure out how much the dryer and water heater cost to run yearly right now on electric.

Then I need to add up the total cost of hooking gas back up (meter, running gas lines under the house), a new gas water heater, a new gas dryer.

New gas dryer - $700
New gas water heater - $700
Gas company hook up - $500
Gas pipes ran by plumper - $1000

$2,900 estimate for initial investment

Let‘s say I save $50 per month off the electric bill. That’s $600 a year. Roughly 5 years before I see the “return“ and savings. Which isn’t bad IMO.

But what do y’all think. Is it even worthwhile? What other possibilities does it open. Maybe a gas HVAC down the road for even more savings?

 

[Kentos]

The old theory was gas is cheaper. I have gas stoves and water heaters. I also have solar. I THINK gas is cheaper, but gas prices have been increasing of late.

The only definitive way to know is to work out the consumption of the gas appliances and figure out gas costs, then do the same for the electric appliances. It’s a pain.

One positive of gas is it stays on even if the power goes off. For a little while longer anyways. Weeks of power outages will affect everything eventually.

Gas stoves are better too imo.

 

[NorthernSoul]

You can measure the electricity usage for an appliance with a meter, or simply estimate it. The estimate would be your average usage over a period of time, say during an average week. Compute the cost for electricity vs. gas using this info.

 

[luvmysuper]

Currently gas IS cheaper.
That could change, but is affected by many factors - Government drive to eliminate gas appliances, Government restrictions on natural gas harvesting, aging power grid, increased use of electric appliances as pushed by current Government policy, anticipated use by Electric Vehicle mandates, reduced number of fossil fuel electric power plants etc.
There has been recent legislation attempts to forbid new gas hookups, so if you are going to do it, sooner is better than later.
You can use the efficiency labels on many (but not all) appliances as described here:

How To Use the EnergyGuide Label To Shop for Home Appliances

The more energy efficient an appliance is, the less it costs to run, and the lower your utility bills might be.

consumer.ftc.gov

 

[Mojo88]

Government restrictions on natural gas harvesting, aging power grid, increased use of electric appliances as pushed by current Government policy, anticipated use by Electric Vehicle mandates, reduced number of fossil fuel electric power plants etc.

What does concern me is what Phil said above. I stepped away from working with the electric utilities 15 years ago due to lack of maintenance money. Planned maintenance went away and as far as I can tell it hasn’t come back.

I don’t see any new plants and they can only recertify the Nukes for so long.

I would lean toward gas as we had an all electric house and I never would want to rely on one utility 100% again.

 

[musicman1951]

I think it would be cheaper in the long run, but there are many questions.

Do you plan to stay in this house? Even if you don't, I suspect it would be easier to sell with the gas. How old are your appliances now? Are you replacing fairly new stuff (maybe you could sell them) or are you due for new ones? I suspect gas HVAC would be considerably cheaper than electric.

Then there's the question of efficiency. There are considerably more efficient hot water systems than the old hot water tank - usually for considerably more money (more math needed). You might want to consider tankless hot water.

I'm reading a fair amount of negative information on gas stoves and indoor pollution, so I personally wouldn't put that on my list. My daughter has one and she poo-pooed the info until she got an air cleaner with pollution measurements on the top. It goes crazy every time she cooks. I do think that a good exhaust fan used every time and/or opening windows would probably solve the problem.

Good luck with your calculations. I'd be inclined to go for it.

 

[borwish]

I can't really add to the question but to share that in my experience an induction cooktop is better than a gas stove---faster, easier to clean, doesn't heat up the room as much. That's not even considering the air quality as mentioned above.

 

[bonjing]

Is gas bad for your health, probably. When we cook our air cleaner tells us the air is bad in the house too even with the vent hood on and a window cracked for flow through, and I do make sure that our range hood filters are clean. Heck that thing goes crazy when I’ve had too much garlic, toot toot.

My thoughts are all over the place. If the money/roi isn’t an issue, I say do it, at least you will, or can have both options. Go look at appliances that you want, it may sway you to one over the other. Don’t worry about selling the house it’s for your enjoyment. The buyers will change out what they want anyway.

 

[abies]

I would lean toward gas as we had an all electric house and I never would want to rely on one utility 100% again.

This is a big thing for me... We have sort of half electric and half gas major appliances/equipment. I think over time we've migrated toward electric because the replacements are so much more efficient, and where they're not we've not moved to electric.

But I've kind of had this weird "eggs in one basket" fear as I've realized it's all dependent on one utility. Our electric utility has been pretty good but storms happen, things happen, etc. and I don't think solar is all that viable on our home (although maybe?) so it leaves me feeling uneasy sometimes.

Sometimes it comes up in talking to HVAC and appliance people and they always argue you're still dependent on electric internally, for starters and so forth. That's true but in at least some situations I can recall with gas I could always as a last resort rely on a lighter or match or something.

I think if we had more sunlight I could see electric with some kind of solar as a backup but in our situation being 100% dependent on electric makes me a bit nervous.

 

[luvmysuper]

The gas vs electric culture war is headlined by extremists and profiteers on both sides of the issue.
Is electric cooking inherently cleaner at the end point user level than gas cooking? Yes, without a doubt.
But the issue is easily mitigated by ventilation or HEPA filters.
Is natural gas cooking cheaper than electric cooking for the end point user? Yes, without a doubt.
But technology advances, and with proper infrastructure work, it needn't be.
It comes down, once again, to being pushed into a particular mode either by alarmists who use unsupported "studies" that link gas stove usage to asthma cases and as a contributor to greenhouse gases - and alarmists who do everything except come right out and say that natural gas use is in fact more polluting.
On one hand, electric proponent fanatics are largely motivated by the virtue culture of "green" and the profits available to environmental groups who seek to eliminate the use of all sources of fossil fuel. They push their agenda by claiming, without any evidence whatsoever, that cooking with gas is causing asthma in children, and use statistical manipulation to dubiously calculate a figure of 12% of greenhouse gases coming from gas appliances.
On the other hand, gas proponents are largely motivated by the virtue culture of "my freedoms" and the profits available to those invested in fossil fuel use expansion. They push their agenda by naming gas "Natural Gas" as if it is a breath of fresh air instead of burning petroleum gas, and they imply that the use of burning gas is harmless in all scenarios.
In truth, the answer is somewhere between the two.
There are WAY more pollutants released into a homes air by the act of cooking itself than the heat source, and the level depends largely upon the type of cookware used, the method of cooking, and the correct operation of the appliance used.
An electric range used to sear a steak in olive oil in a Teflon pan releases far more "hazardous" volatiles into the air than a properly operating gas stove using a steel pan to simmer vegetables.
Induction cooktops take up less space, and can boil water in half the time of a conventional stove top, though there are some other drawbacks such as audible hum, lack of a visual cue as to the unit operation, elimination of aluminum as cookware, the need for an analog thermometer vs a digital one, and... the cost.
The issue right now is that, much like Internal Combustion Cars, and incandescent bulbs before that, a technology is being pushed on consumers before the infrastructure is ready for mass adoption.
We need to ensure that work is scheduled and done on our failing nationwide electrical grid to ensure reliable consistent power.
We need to ensure that alternatives are still available to the public until manufacturing has ramped up sufficiently to allow the average consumer to see the financial benefit by way of reduced purchase cost and reduced cost of deliverable energy sources.
Till then, use your gas stove if you still have one - or get one if you still can.
And take normal precautions when using ANY cooking appliance, such as using exhaust fans and/or filters.

 

[bonjing]

Is gas bad for your health, probably. When we cook our air cleaner tells us the air is bad in the house too even with the vent hood on and a window cracked for flow through, and I do make sure that our range hood filters are clean. Heck that thing goes crazy when I’ve had too much garlic, toot toot.

My thoughts are all over the place. If the money/roi isn’t an issue, I say do it, at least you will, or can have both options. Go look at appliances that you want, it may sway you to one over the other. Don’t worry about selling the house it’s for your enjoyment. The buyers will change out what they want anyway.

Sorry I should have stated that we have an electric/induction and love it.

 

[Toothpick]

I’m not at all interested in the gas vs electric debate on a higher level of health and politics. But y’all carry on if it makes your day better.

I do plan on staying here a long while. I don’t mind a long term investment either. Like say if it won’t start paying off until 5+ years. But one thing to consider that I’m glad y’all brought up is venting and air flow. The stove is electric and has no vent to outside. I think if I went gas range I’d definitely want a vent to outside. And as the stove is on an interior wall that makes it more of a challenge. Just straight up through the attic. So a gas range is likely not an option at this point anyway.

 

[Jay21]

How do you heat your home? Heat pump?

IMHO, the benefit of converting to gas really starts to pay off and make sense when you install a gas furnace in colder climates to replace heat pumps or resistance coil heaters. Unless you are passionate about gas water heaters and clothes dryers, and absolutely need faster heating cycles, it seems like it’s more trouble than it’s worth to replace all that for two items that don’t directly heat your home. If you simply want gas for gas’s sake, go for it. Otherwise, it doesn’t fully add up in my smooth cortex brain.

 

[simon1]

Jason...go gas. It kept us alive during the big ice storm 20 some years ago when electric was out for two weeks and again during the major freeze a couple of years ago that shut down the power grid.

This house was total electric when we moved in about 30 years ago. After the first year of electric bills that were outlandish I had the house plumbed for propane. It runs hot water heater, cook stove, and infrared heaters through out the house. Washer, dryer, and central air are still electric. Propane is tied to gas prices, which are crazy now, but expense is still cheaper than the electric bill was years ago. I probably need to qualify that I was raised in natural gas and propane fueled houses.

Don't know how your power grid is there, but they are issuing warnings for electric use here later next week...and the greenie push for electric everything hasn't taken hold here yet.

I'm getting my wood heating stove back in operation also. Those and working fireplaces are banned in California new home construction now. No wonder we are getting transplants from the West Coast.

 

[alpster]

Where you live makes a difference also. In NJ we had a similar sized house all electric except the cook stove which was propane. Electric bills in the summer were outrageous due to NJ energy taxes and service fees. My same size, all electric (propane stove) house in FL with warmer summers is 1/2 what we paid in NJ. When we converted to gas in NJ, even though we had to replace all heating appliances, was a HUGE savings. Paid for itself for in a few years. The advantages are more than cost. When the power went out (often in NJ) a small generator to operate the well, fridge and a few lights and we were not inconvenienced. After hurricane Sandy in 2013, we lost power (without gas) for 16 days straight and it was miserable. JMHE

 

[StillShaving]

Another reason to potentially go through with the expense of adding a natural gas hookup is if you also planned to get an emergency generator for your critical electricity needs. That could even be a starting point, letting you slow roll the replacement of other things. But my guess is that it would take longer than 5 years to recoup the cost of converting. Unless the appliance/system is near end of its life anyway.

But I think it is as much about personal opinion and beliefs as it is about economics. For example, I would personally want to upgrade to an induction cooktop after trying a small cookplate out, rather than installing a gas cooktop. Even if induction is more expensive and has had some availability/reliability problems with some manufacturers. Since the marginal MegaWatt of electricity is produced by fossil fuel, even if my cousin was named Greta Thunberg I think I would want to use NatGas to heat my home and water as that is more efficient than burning fuel at the power plant to supply electricity to the grid which becomes resistive heat at my home. Modern heat pumps have high efficiency, but I don't know if they can be so efficient as to overcome the energy conversion losses when also factoring in the colder days.

 

[simon1]

Another reason to potentially go through with the expense of adding a natural gas hookup is if you also planned to get an emergency generator for your critical electricity needs. That could even be a starting point, letting you slow roll the replacement of other things.

Good advise. I "think" Jason already has a generator. Maybe not.

After another brand I finally ended up with about a 7,000 watt Generac portable generator. Haven't had a bit of problem out of it...when I go to shut it down I turn off the gas and let the carburator run dry until it stops. Runs my well pump and I usually string an electric cord into the hose to run coffee pot (but I have a vac pot and percolator that can go on the stove), the microwave, TV, and computer. Three kerosene lanterns light up the living room just fine.

I'm not spoiled...I can survive just fine under primitive conditions...really I can...really.

 

[LuckyR]

How do you heat your home? Heat pump?

IMHO, the benefit of converting to gas really starts to pay off and make sense when you install a gas furnace in colder climates to replace heat pumps or resistance coil heaters. Unless you are passionate about gas water heaters and clothes dryers, and absolutely need faster heating cycles, it seems like it’s more trouble than it’s worth to replace all that for two items that don’t directly heat your home. If you simply want gas for gas’s sake, go for it. Otherwise, it doesn’t fully add up in my smooth cortex brain.

What he said...

 

[Legion]

We have gas and electric. The gas is for the oven/stove and hot water, everything else is electricity.

I'm not sure if the gas saves us much money, but one thing is for sure. I MUCH prefer cooking on a gas stovetop than an electric one. For that alone it is worth it to me.

 

[cleanshaved]

I would hate to not have my mains pressure infinity hot water heater. Hot showers as long as you want and never run out of hot water...........ahhhh.
Is it cheaper does not come into play at all. I have both natural gas and electricity connected. Pick the gas appliance that works better for you.

Now the other option is to install gas bottles instead of connecting to the mains.