HELP! Blunt straight after 1 shave

[keithdowle]

Hi,

I'm a newbie here. I have been shaving with DE razors for a while and recently decided it was time to take a step up and buy a straight.

First shave was fantastic! I went to have my second shave today and the blade seemed to be blunt. Wouldn't cut the hair at all. I had to revert to me DE. I bought the razor (Dovo) from a reputable dealer and it was dispatched honed and "shave ready"

I dont understand how it could have gone blunt after only 1 shave.

Help please

 

[Price]

More than likely, your stropping technique is the culprit here. If you aren't careful to keep the strop taut and the spine in contact with it, you will roll the edge of your blade and blunt it quite quickly. The edge of a straight razor is extremely sharp, but also extremely fragile.

Sorry mate, but you'll likely need to have that rehoned.

 

[keithdowle]

Thanks.

I thought it was probably down to my stopping technique. What advice can you give me for that so i don't balls it up next time?

Also, do you think it would be better to invest in a Hone and do it myself or get it done professionally? I it something easy to do?

Cheers

 

[Price]

The most important advice when learning to strop is to go s-l-o-w. In every western movie ever made, the barber is whipping the blade up & down the strop like a madman. That's great for the movies, bad for you. The key is consistency, not speed. Go at a steady pace, ensuring you keep the spine and the edge in contact with the strop at all times during the stroke. Be especially careful when flipping the razor, as this is when it is easiest to gouge up your strop (and ruin your edge in the process).

Honing a razor is not really a difficult skill. It just takes patience. The standard advice that you should start with a professionally honed razor is so that you get a feel for what your edge should be. I'd recommend having it done this time by someone experienced, as it will need to be brought back a good bit, but if you are careful not to roll the edge again or otherwise "balls it up", you can certainly maintain that edge with a finishing hone, paste, or lapping film. Hones can get pricey, but paste & film are fairly cheap options, and will keep your edge healthy indefinitely for less than the cost of a single professional honing.

 

[Luc]

Thanks.

I thought it was probably down to my stopping technique. What advice can you give me for that so i don't balls it up next time?

Also, do you think it would be better to invest in a Hone and do it myself or get it done professionally? I it something easy to do?

Cheers

It would be good to have your routine on what happened during the stropping. What did you do? How many laps?

 

[Slash McCoy]

I will assume you are using a conventional leather hanging strop. Pull it nice and tight, and use only very light pressure on the razor. You don't want the strop to sag at all. Also, at the end of the stroke, keep the spine on the strop. Flip the EDGE outward to change directions for the return stroke. This is extremely important. Be careful near the ends of the strop that you don't go up on or against any doubled/sewn leather or hardware. A wide strop is better than a narrow one but if you have a narrow (less than 2-3/4" wide) strop all is not lost... you just have to use an "X' stroke. As the blade travels down the hone, you also pull it sideways so the direction of travel is diagonal, and you hit the entire edge more or less evenly. Be sure you are not "bending" the razor over the edge of the strop, and don't let the shoulder of the razor ride on the strop. This is a common mistake that shows up in bad results when using a wide strop. With a wide strop, x-stroking is not needed so likely if you begin the stroke with the shoulder on the strop, you will also finish the stroke with the shoulder on the strop. This prevents good stropping action at the heel of the blade, and puts excessive pressure on the toe.

Since you are a beginner, keep it simple. Strop on the hair side (smooth side) of the leather only, not on the flesh side or on the linen or canvas or felt, if so equipped. 4 dozen laps before each shave is plenty. A dozen after shaving and wiping the blade is good, too, since it ensures complete dryness and cleanliness of the edge.

It does sound like your razor needs re-honing. Best bet is to send it out. However, there is a cheap DIY option that has the potential of giving you a very good edge, for cheap. First, order a sheet of 3u and a sheet of 1u lapping film from amazon. Then visit home depot and pick up a polished marble edge tile, also called a bullnose, 4" x 12". It should cost about $5. Or go to Lowe's and buy a polished marble tile, 12" x 12" and have them cut it into thirds. Or actually cut it into a 4" piece and an 8" piece, minus what the saw takes. This 4" wide piece will be your lapping plate. When you get your film, carefully cut it into thirds, longways. A paper cutter works good for this. Wipe the plate with a clean, wet, lint free rag. Make sure your film is clean and apply your film, shiny side down. The water will make the film cling to the polished marble. Work out any bubbles. The film should come all the way to one long edge. Sprinkle water on top of the film. There... a really big, really flat hone, for less than $7.

Stropping is done with the edge trailing. Honing is done with the edge leading. Especially when honing, it is really important to always keep the spine of the razor on the hone, any time that the edge is touching it. Change directions by flipping the EDGE out, never the spine. LIGHT pressure... only the weight of the razor is enough. You may have to add like half the weight of your finger for more control. Make sure that the shoulder of the razor does not ride up on the film! One round trip, both away and back toward you, is one lap. Give the razor 50 laps and see if there is an improvement. Test before, and after, with the HHT (hanging hair test) which you should google because a thorough understanding of it is necessary. The improvement must be along the entire edge. A 3u edge should shave your face, too. If you strop your edge after honing on 3u film, you should have an edge that will shave your face, though it won't be as good as most of us want it. But if it simply does NOT shave, you need more work on the 3u film.

If the spine ever lifts from the film while the edge is touching it, you have damaged your edge. Go back to the beginning. You need the practice, anyway.

Anyhow, after 3u film, remove the film and rinse it, blot it dry and let it lay out and dry completely. You can use this piece again and again, a dozen times, maybe more. Make sure you clean the plate thoroughly to avoid contaminating the 1u film with 3u grit. Make sure the razor is clean, too. Wash your hands while you are at it. Apply the 1u film. Hone some more. Another 40 or 50 laps is not excessive. Now if you strop your razor, you will find the edge much, much improved. But there is still another trick up our sleeve. Remove the film. Carefully spread a piece of damp paper over the plate. Make sure there are no wrinkles or bubbles. A perfectly flat surface is always a requirement when honing. Now apply your 1u film, this time over the damp paper. Hone some more, using even lighter pressure. NOW your razor is honed, and if you did everything right, it is probably as good or better than a professionally honed edge. Strop, and shave.

ALWAYS use light pressure. The edge is very flexible and the tolerances for a good edge are very close. If the edge flexes even a half micron while you are wearing away steel by honing, when it springs back your bevel will no longer be as perfect as it could have been.

This setup will allow you to maintain your edge forever, if you do not ding the edge on something, invite heavy rust and pitting, or round the edge REALLY bad by stropping poorly. In fact, you can simply hone on the 1u film alone, once a week or so, and forget about the 3u. Such maintenance honing will save you a lot of money and ensure that even if you only keep one razor, you will always have a sharp razor ready to shave.

Another good edge maintenance regimen is stropping a dozen laps after every shave, on pasted balsa. Get a piece (or 2 or 3) of balsa from your local hobby shop or online, 1" x 3" x 12". Get some 1u and some .25u diamond paste from www.tedpella.com or other vendor. Squeeze out an amount just a little bigger than a bb. Smear it around on one side of the balsa. Make sure the entire surface gets some. Rub it in good. Start with the finer grade. Then do the other side with the coarser (1u) grade. It is sort of okay to contaminate the coarser side with abrasive from the finer side, but definitely NOT okay to let ANY of the coarser grit get on the fine side. Label the sides with a sharpie.

The balsa should only be a few bucks. The diamond paste is cheap and lasts a long time. You can get by a long time with just 5g of each grade. Touchup applications only need a couple of little dots.

To use the pasted balsa bench strop, just strop normally, edge trailing, with light pressure, about a dozen laps after each shave. Flip it and do a dozen on the fine side, after carefully wiping the blade. You can try using only the fine side, too. I like diamond, but many shavers use CrOx, Chromium Oxide, which is a green pigment used in artist paints and pottery glazes. It is normally about .5u grit. Whatever abrasive you choose, if your technique is good, you can go pretty near indefinitely between honings, by use of the pasted balsa bench strop.

A word about honing and stropping...
A lot of guys rest their hone, lapping plate, or bench strop on a table or counter or bench. They can then hold the razor in two hands. I don't like that. I prefer to hold a stone, or a lapping plate with film, or a bench strop loosely in my left hand with the razor in my right. This allows the edge and the hone or strop to find each other and self-align. It allows and encourages lighter pressure. I strongly suggest you do it that way, too.

Either of these options works for maintenance honing, but the balsa is not so good for recovering a dulled edge. For that, I recommend the film on marble. The whole kit is cheap, so you won't be out much money. Read the lapping film threads and do it right the first time. If you can't make it work for you, then send it out. If you are getting poor shaves and you are not sure if it is the edge or your shave technique, then send it out.

I do not recommend buying stones to maintain just one or a few razors. First of all, you will have to compromise on size or cost. Bigger stones are way costlier. Bigger stones are easier to use and are likely to give you better results, especially as a beginner. Stones must be lapped, which is basically flattening them on another surface that you assume is flat. A full progression of stones is big, heavy, and bulky. A coticule or some other natural stones can replace several stones in your progression, but in large sizes they are quite expensive, and results are hit or miss until you have experience. And you will still want to hit a pasted bench strop or pasted hanging strop, at a minimum, after honing on a natural. Lapping film will give the newbie the most consistently excellent results the earliest for the least $. In your situation, I think buying stones with the idea of fixing your strop-rounded edge would be a bad idea. Film, not so bad because of the low cost and likelyhood of great results.

 

[Brownbear]

I think bad stropping is over diagnosed for beginner shaving problems. Once I got good at all the skills and was playing with different strop leathers I tried to dull a blade by stropping. As long as you don't lift the spine off of the leather you can hardly do any wrong, and certainly couldn't dull a razor in a single stropping. I think it is more likely bad shaving technique and perhaps an edge that wasn't very good to begin with.

The cure is the same regardless. Get the blade sharpened by someone with proven skills, use a low angle when shaving and go slow at first on the stropping to be sure you aren't lifting the spine.

With all the emphasis on stropping we tend to forget that shaving is a lot harder on the edge. You aren't holding the blade with the spine in contact with the "leather" (your skin) and you are dragging it edge first across a surface riddled with thousands of the equivalent of fine copper wires. Straight edges don't last long when used as cabinet scrapers on an abrasive unshaven face. I am certain that my ability to quickly dull an edge when beginning was too high a blade angle and generally clumsy technique.

Keep on keeping on, it will get better with practice.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I think bad stropping is over diagnosed for beginner shaving problems. Once I got good at all the skills and was playing with different strop leathers I tried to dull a blade by stropping. As long as you don't lift the spine off of the leather you can hardly do any wrong, and certainly couldn't dull a razor in a single stropping. I think it is more likely bad shaving technique and perhaps an edge that wasn't very good to begin with.

The cure is the same regardless. Get the blade sharpened by someone with proven skills, use a low angle when shaving and go slow at first on the stropping to be sure you aren't lifting the spine.

With all the emphasis on stropping we tend to forget that shaving is a lot harder on the edge. You aren't holding the blade with the spine in contact with the "leather" (your skin) and you are dragging it edge first across a surface riddled with thousands of the equivalent of fine copper wires. Straight edges don't last long when used as cabinet scrapers on an abrasive unshaven face. I am certain that my ability to quickly dull an edge when beginning was too high a blade angle and generally clumsy technique.

Keep on keeping on, it will get better with practice.

Good point.

 

[PeterN]

slash and brownbear have good points. Lapping film is cheap consistent and works rather well. I used the lapping film progression then did the rough side of a leather strop, linen then regular leather. That edge held up well. I do 10 on the linen after a shave and then 20 before and about 30 on the leather.

The key really is putting no pressure on the blade while stropping, just enough so that you are sure that the edge and spine are on the material. Good luck

 

[AverageJoe]

Something I'd try before re-honing is newspaper stropping. It's been explained a lot online, so I won't repeat it, just Google it. Try that, holding the paper strop very taut, then do your normal leather stropping and try shaving again! If it was good before, unless you really bunged it up somehow in one shave, this should get you back up to speed pretty painlessly. If it's REALLY bad, I'll use my Spyderco bench hones--they're great and nothing fancy.

Honing isn't something to be afraid of either-----you need to acquire this skill anyway. The most important thing to remember while stropping or honing is to keep the blade flat, both leading and trailing edges in contact with the strop or hone at all times. Use light pressure-------if you use NO pressure, you won't do anything and you'll be stropping and honing till the cows come home. If you do this, you can't mess it up too bad. Just do a little experimenting . I like to clamp one end of my newspaper strop in a bench vise so I can keep good tension on it. I don't claim to be a 'honemeister', but I will say that I can get my razors sharper than a 'honemeister' I sent a razor to before!! I was determined after that, that I could do better myself and now I can. Good Luck.

 

[paco664]

pm me and i'll give you my addy.... send me the razor and i will hone it free of charge as a PIF... i only ask you cover shipping.....

it will come back shave ready and prestropped... just open and go at it......

 

[Shmu]

I'd take Paco up on that offer, he's a trustworthy guy.

 

[Great White Shavealo]

I think bad stropping is over diagnosed for beginner shaving problems. Once I got good at all the skills and was playing with different strop leathers I tried to dull a blade by stropping. As long as you don't lift the spine off of the leather you can hardly do any wrong, and certainly couldn't dull a razor in a single stropping. I think it is more likely bad shaving technique and perhaps an edge that wasn't very good to begin with.

The cure is the same regardless. Get the blade sharpened by someone with proven skills, use a low angle when shaving and go slow at first on the stropping to be sure you aren't lifting the spine.

With all the emphasis on stropping we tend to forget that shaving is a lot harder on the edge. You aren't holding the blade with the spine in contact with the "leather" (your skin) and you are dragging it edge first across a surface riddled with thousands of the equivalent of fine copper wires. Straight edges don't last long when used as cabinet scrapers on an abrasive unshaven face. I am certain that my ability to quickly dull an edge when beginning was too high a blade angle and generally clumsy technique.

Keep on keeping on, it will get better with practice.

+1

No doubt that poor angles while shaving did the trick on dulling the edge. The life of the blade edge increases with the increase in skill at straight shaving. Poor stropping didn't help, but it wasn't the "killer blow."

 

[global_dev]

I think bad stropping is over diagnosed for beginner shaving problems. Once I got good at all the skills and was playing with different strop leathers I tried to dull a blade by stropping. As long as you don't lift the spine off of the leather you can hardly do any wrong, and certainly couldn't dull a razor in a single stropping. I think it is more likely bad shaving technique and perhaps an edge that wasn't very good to begin with.

BB, i really do think people lift up the spine without realizing it and probably use a lot of pressure to boot. combine that with poor technique that doesn't allow you to get through 1 pass let alone 3 or 4..

i open up my blade a lot compared to the keep the spine on skin or at lest very close to and the edge appears to last.

I am not saying you are wrong or your assumptions are off, maybe you are correct. i really have no idea since i haven't seen the stropping, shaving, or anything else of others live.

but you certainly correct in saying it will get better with practice.

 

[global_dev]

pm me and i'll give you my addy.... send me the razor and i will hone it free of charge as a PIF... i only ask you cover shipping.....

it will come back shave ready and prestropped... just open and go at it......

it will probably com back looking like a blade welded to a metal rod wrapped in hemp or rattan and the original tang preserved in acrylic attached to a keychain for posterity.

 

[Doc226]

Thanks.

I thought it was probably down to my stopping technique. What advice can you give me for that so i don't balls it up next time?

I would recommend laying the strop on the counter and stropping this way, this removes one aspect of the problems. I do think "rolling the edge" is over rated as a problem-as long as the spine is in contact with the strop

pm me and i'll give you my addy.... send me the razor and i will hone it free of charge as a PIF... i only ask you cover shipping.....

it will come back shave ready and prestropped... just open and go at it......

I was going to offer the same, Paco puts a real nice edge on the razor.

I'd take Paco up on that offer, he's a trustworthy guy.

Yep

 

[BrookR1]

I just went through what you're going through now. I messed up my edge pretty good, but I didn't need to have to my razor rehoned. I have a few thoughts about this...

• It's possible your razor was not sharp to begin with. I've received 3 "shave ready" razors that weren't sharp enough. To tell whether it's sharp, look up the hanging hair test (HHT) and get it to at least HHT3...that's where the hair pops without too much dragging, and it cuts clean. This will serve as a reference for you. It's possible you could get away with HHT1 or HHT2, but HHT3 seems to be the minimum for me.

• I was able to strop my razor on balsa using Chromium Oxide (0.5 micron) on one side and Iron Oxide (0.1 micron) on the other. This repaired the blade and saved it from my poor stropping without having to send it out to get rehoned.

• Stropping too slowly is just as bad as stropping incorrectly. You should be stropping at about 40-60 laps per minute. One lap is one pass on one side and one pass on the other...so there and back on the strop is one lap.

• Laying the strop on a hard surface is much easier than using a hanging strop. I would lay the strop on a kitchen counter top next to the edge so you have plenty of room to maneuver your blade/hand. Use light (but not too light) strokes. You want to hear a very light scraping sound while you strop. If your press too hard, it will sound like nails on a chalkboard. If you press too lightly, you'll only hear the spine rubbing across the strop.

 

[Seraphim]

Something I'd try before re-honing is newspaper stropping. It's been explained a lot online, so I won't repeat it, just Google it. Try that, holding the paper strop very taut, then do your normal leather stropping and try shaving again! If it was good before, unless you really bunged it up somehow in one shave, this should get you back up to speed pretty painlessly. If it's REALLY bad, I'll use my Spyderco bench hones--they're great and nothing fancy.

Honing isn't something to be afraid of either-----you need to acquire this skill anyway. The most important thing to remember while stropping or honing is to keep the blade flat, both leading and trailing edges in contact with the strop or hone at all times. Use light pressure-------if you use NO pressure, you won't do anything and you'll be stropping and honing till the cows come home. If you do this, you can't mess it up too bad. Just do a little experimenting . I like to clamp one end of my newspaper strop in a bench vise so I can keep good tension on it. I don't claim to be a 'honemeister', but I will say that I can get my razors sharper than a 'honemeister' I sent a razor to before!! I was determined after that, that I could do better myself and now I can. Good Luck.

Shameless self promotion (that may also be of some help..)