Still, really the only conceivable action on the part of the person or people who perpetrated this is to own up to any misdeeds and ask for forgiveness.
Has anyone been watching the downfall of HTGAM/PPF?
- Thread starter BabyFace34
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I'm surprised at the number of people defending this guy or just shoving the issue aside. It's just soap or that's the way things are, other people have done worse. I don't see it that way. I see a clear attempt to deceive. I haven't seen the review of PPF published by "Douglas" on Sharpologist mentioned in this thread and I can't post a link to it here. But "Douglas" (the supposed blogger) pretty much called it the best soap he'd ever used. The review was so over the top enthusiastic that I didn't really believe it. But a lot of people did and I started seeing a big uptick of PPF discussion around here after that. And yet people defend him now even though it's quite apparent that he was making PPF all along. Meanwhile we have some hard working artisans around that aren't taking shortcuts. How much did he cut into their honestly earned business?
Will those of us in the Wet Shaving community be contrite and forgive? Let's hope this whole thing makes us all better people.
I think you miss understood me.....I could give a flying fart what the owner does to promote his business. If his product is good, it comes down to what the consumer is willing to put up with. I have been in the marketing game a while and have seen some pretty atrocious things done by people trying to promote themselves, resorting not only to out right lies about theyre performance and product, but defamation of others. Believe me when I say I DO NOT SUPPORT THESE TYPES OF ACTIONS. However, the interwebs have turned this world from a land of promise for entrepreneurs to a "who ever has the attention when the dust settles wins" kinda place. As long as this Douglas guy isn't cheating, stealing or harming the clientele, I really don't see why we have to latch on to the controversy and pump it all up. For all we know, that's his end game.
to address the topic of forums being defiled but these types of actions......fellas, I love this place. I spend far more time then I should on here becuase this place feels like sanctuary to me. However, forums come and go. Honestly I was shocked to see the level of class in here when I joined almost a year ago, but if this place were to get tarnished by crap like that I would likely just leave. In the end, it's a forum, not a church, not a hospital......a forum. If I have to, I CAN shave on my own
I could care less about HGTAM but I do really enjoy using PPF products. I find them to be excellent and have only had positive experiences with this company.
The character creation thing no big deal, Santa Claus isn't real either.
The fake reviews other companies do this as well. You can even hire professional review writers these days. It's dishonest but I'm not naive so I know that they're out there. It's like getting a quote for work on your house, throw out the highest and the lowest and the middle is likely where you want to be giving your attention.
The ingredient thing can be chalked up to an honest mistake that has been corrected.
However, the one thing that does really bother me about this is the military aspect of this whole thing. I don't have too much information about the specifics of the wrongdoing but if it were my company and I had made those mistakes I'd be issuing an apology and offering an ongoing military discount. Taking care of the people that make sacrifices to protect us is the right thing to do anyway.
Nailed it Derek.
There is a tremendous difference between creating a persona for advertising purposes and creating an apparently independent blogger/writer. People at least know they are watching an advertisement when they are.
I am not apposed to finding out a fraud and keeping him out of this place, I just don't think we all need to jump into the drama wagon and turn into a lynch mob to do it. Our Mod team are class act people and they are definitely up for the task of keeping this place clean and pure. It was mentioned before, but this feels like the Ikon saga that I was just late to the party for. I'm sure there was a bunch of drama surround that too, I still see the fringes of that from time to time. In the end, if he comes in here to wreak havoc on this place (which I have yet to see evidence of) then the mods will jump in. But I like his product, and I'm willing to be that most others in here do too. But if it keeps you guys up at night knowing that you have the soap of a fibber in your den, then get rid of it. To me, it won't effect whether or not I buy his product. After all, I have two tins of it, I don't think I will ever have to buy it again LOL
Yes and yes. Refer to links already referred to and posted multiple times in this thread for more details.
What bothers me is that the PPF soap really is that good. I've given them some positive publicity myself as it's one of the best soaps I've ever tried and I've tried several hundred of them. His fake review was completely unnecessary and I wish things like this tying the two companies together weren't out there. I've only dealt with with his girlfriend/wife myself and have experienced nothing but positive customer service and excellent products. It's a shame that the decisions made to grow the HGTAM business will impact PPF.
This isn't Uncle Ben or Tony the Tiger. I don't care about two companies being one, and I wouldn't even care about the "Douglas" guy on the HTGAM site, since he's kind of hipster cartoonish to me anyway with the moustache and the shades. A marketing icon or persona is fine. But trying to represent yourself as all these different things on enthusiast boards and such, along with all the fraudulent reviews is way over the line. The CIA thing? That's almost in mental illness territory. I did have a pathological liar roommate once who told stories like that... coincidentally his also included his dad the admiral. Weird.
I agree with all you've said with the small exception of the review issue. Creating reviews for your own products under a pseudonym is a bit concerning for me. However much less so since I agree with what the reviews had to say.
The difference is Santa clause, the tooth fairy, and the Easter Bunny aren't trying to deceive me in an attempt to buy something they offer.
Sorry.....couldn't resist.....
I think the bottom line is that regardless of how good or bad his products are there are far too many great artisans that aren't sleazy and untrustworthy. His apology was far from good enough for me. I've never bought a HTGAM product from him because his shipping is ridiculous to Canada and he has always seemed like a pompous *** to me.
Why do people refer to corporations as some big evil alien? Last time i checked, corporations are run by....yes....individual people.
Bingo. Nice summary. It isn't the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, just a nasty little scam. I know, no one was really hurt, but saying, "Well, big companies are worse" is no answer. We expect artisans to be closer to us in ethics than Koch Industries, for example.
But as has been pointed out, it is just soap with an interesting little human drama attached.
One of the main reasons this has turned into such a drama is that we expect different behavior from an artisan soapmaker than we do from a large international corporation. "Douglas Smythe" passed himself off as one of "us." He's just like you and me; an enthusiastic wetshaver with a talent for making soap and other products. Big corporations have always been "them," not "us."
We expect better behavior of "us." It reflects poorly on the entire community when one of "our own" does wrong.
It's like the difference between having your wallen stolen at Grand Central Station and having your wallet stolen at a family reunion. The former is annoying, but not surprising. The latter is both annoying AND surprising. Even if it was stolen by a second cousin that you never met before, he's at YOUR FAMILY REUNION. He's not supposed to hurt the ones he loves (or associates with).
That's a big part of the problem here. "Douglas" was adopted by this community, but he was not really one of us. Not really who he said he was. It's very disappointing. It's behavior that is unimaginable by other artisans we know. How shocked would you be if a story like this came out about, for example, Matthew at Queen Charlotte Soaps, or Will at Barrister and Mann, or Michelle at Mystic Waters Soaps?
As a side note, as far as the ingredients list thing goes, I, for one, gave him the benefit of the doubt. He came into the thread and said he didn't know any better, and that he would fix it, and that was good enough for me. But now it really makes me wonder. Maybe he just wrote down a list of ingredients he thought would please the masses and it has virtually nothing to do with what's actually in the soap. Who can trust him now? Maybe it lathers really well because it's 40% polyethylene glycol, or because it contains sodium lauryl sulfate, or something. Who knows? (For the record, if people want to use soaps with those ingredients, I have no problem with it, but the soapmaker should list the ingredients properly and let the buyers choose based on true information.)
I really like the PPF deodorant. I hope another artisan comes out with a similar product soon, because I don't want to give this charlatan anymore of my money.
We expect better behavior of "us." It reflects poorly on the entire community when one of "our own" does wrong.
It's like the difference between having your wallen stolen at Grand Central Station and having your wallet stolen at a family reunion. The former is annoying, but not surprising. The latter is both annoying AND surprising. Even if it was stolen by a second cousin that you never met before, he's at YOUR FAMILY REUNION. He's not supposed to hurt the ones he loves (or associates with).
That's a big part of the problem here. "Douglas" was adopted by this community, but he was not really one of us. Not really who he said he was. It's very disappointing. It's behavior that is unimaginable by other artisans we know. How shocked would you be if a story like this came out about, for example, Matthew at Queen Charlotte Soaps, or Will at Barrister and Mann, or Michelle at Mystic Waters Soaps?
As a side note, as far as the ingredients list thing goes, I, for one, gave him the benefit of the doubt. He came into the thread and said he didn't know any better, and that he would fix it, and that was good enough for me. But now it really makes me wonder. Maybe he just wrote down a list of ingredients he thought would please the masses and it has virtually nothing to do with what's actually in the soap. Who can trust him now? Maybe it lathers really well because it's 40% polyethylene glycol, or because it contains sodium lauryl sulfate, or something. Who knows? (For the record, if people want to use soaps with those ingredients, I have no problem with it, but the soapmaker should list the ingredients properly and let the buyers choose based on true information.)
I really like the PPF deodorant. I hope another artisan comes out with a similar product soon, because I don't want to give this charlatan anymore of my money.
Some great comments in this thread.
I'll just say that there are plenty of other artisans out there that are honest, which means there are plenty of options available to me. I try to buy quality artisan products to support good people. I know big companies do the same thing that this guy has done, and that's a big reason why I support smaller craftsman.
I will not knowingly buy products from those that lack integrity. From a practicality standpoint there are too many risks involved. From a personal standpoint I find it morally repugnant.
Stolen valor is a HUGE issue for me. I won't support anyone guilty of this, financially or otherwise. Falsely claiming the honor of those that are bravest amongst us makes you the lowest form of man.
I'll just say that there are plenty of other artisans out there that are honest, which means there are plenty of options available to me. I try to buy quality artisan products to support good people. I know big companies do the same thing that this guy has done, and that's a big reason why I support smaller craftsman.
I will not knowingly buy products from those that lack integrity. From a practicality standpoint there are too many risks involved. From a personal standpoint I find it morally repugnant.
Stolen valor is a HUGE issue for me. I won't support anyone guilty of this, financially or otherwise. Falsely claiming the honor of those that are bravest amongst us makes you the lowest form of man.
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