I certainly have enjoyed Petal Pusher Fancies Deodorant products and I'm greatly disappointed to hear these things. It appears the man is lacking in integrity. My trust in the product is vacated.
Has anyone been watching the downfall of HTGAM/PPF?
- Thread starter BabyFace34
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Just relax and keep buying the products you like. The world is not out to get you.
I'm saddened that the HTGAM/PPF scandal has come to it. "Douglas" has a real talent for marketing and "Frances" has a real talent for soap making. At the same the way that HTGAM/PPF has handled this is particularly disturbing and in my book is what's putting me off of from making further purchases from HTGAM/PPF.
The particular instances of misleading (read lies) have been chronicled effectively earlier in this post. What I find to be more offensive is that those who first raised questions about HTGAM/PPF's labeling practises, the creation of a love triangle, the apparent disappearance of Hodges, the fraudulent veterans wet shaving group so on and so on, is that "Douglas" immediately began to characterize those asking legitimate questions as "haters" - a very strong, loaded term. "Douglas" has not made any moves to apologizing for his inflammatory rhetoric, not has he asked his supporters to back off their attacks.
His supporters faced with accepting some difficult truths about someone they have spend a lot of money with, quickly adopted "Douglas's" mantra, "Haters are going to hate". This level of vitriol has resulted in many long time wet shavers who have long, honorable reputations having their posts deleted and even being thrown out of FB shave groups that they were major participants.
Fortunately FB's The Big Shave, Bullgoose's ShaveNook and B&B have provided an opportunity for the "inconsistencies" of "Douglas" to be shared. While "Douglas" has supposedly apologized claiming ignorance and over enthusiasm as if he was a 22 year old suffering from too much enthusiasm, he has not apologized to those brave individuals who chose to challenge a popular figure in the wet shaving world. Only when"Douglas"works to repair the damage done to those folks will he have any legitimacy in the wet shaving world.
I've been wet shaving for six years. I've bought a lot of shave products from many wonderful vendors and more recently artisan soap makers. I like the fact that I'm supporting someone with my cash purchases who is supportive of the wet shaving movement and community. Even though I've spent a lot of money on shave stuff, I feel that I'm the one that has benefited. I've benefited from top level service of good products. I've benefited from those vendors supporting forums such as B&B and others. More over, I've gotten to know some genuinely nice people who happen to be in the wet shaving business. It's important to me that I support nice, honorable, honest people, particularly when dealing with an artisan rather than a make believe nice, honorable , honest person.
The question has been raised by some, "what harm has been done"? Just ask those who were characterized as being villains simply for asking about labeling creative practices, labeled as crazy folks who for some reason became obsessed with attacking one particular soap maker. Also consider how many honest, small business people there are who are making wonderful soaps whose potential customers bought a HTGAM/PPF soap based on hyperbole and spun cloth instead of an honest artisan's product. Consider stories of "Douglas" bad-mouthing Cassie Maggard. If that's the kind of person that you want to do business with, that's your business.
Again, I say, "Douglas" if you really want to sincerely apologize, it's time to start repairing the damage done in perpetuating your mythology. Talk without action is cheap!
The particular instances of misleading (read lies) have been chronicled effectively earlier in this post. What I find to be more offensive is that those who first raised questions about HTGAM/PPF's labeling practises, the creation of a love triangle, the apparent disappearance of Hodges, the fraudulent veterans wet shaving group so on and so on, is that "Douglas" immediately began to characterize those asking legitimate questions as "haters" - a very strong, loaded term. "Douglas" has not made any moves to apologizing for his inflammatory rhetoric, not has he asked his supporters to back off their attacks.
His supporters faced with accepting some difficult truths about someone they have spend a lot of money with, quickly adopted "Douglas's" mantra, "Haters are going to hate". This level of vitriol has resulted in many long time wet shavers who have long, honorable reputations having their posts deleted and even being thrown out of FB shave groups that they were major participants.
Fortunately FB's The Big Shave, Bullgoose's ShaveNook and B&B have provided an opportunity for the "inconsistencies" of "Douglas" to be shared. While "Douglas" has supposedly apologized claiming ignorance and over enthusiasm as if he was a 22 year old suffering from too much enthusiasm, he has not apologized to those brave individuals who chose to challenge a popular figure in the wet shaving world. Only when"Douglas"works to repair the damage done to those folks will he have any legitimacy in the wet shaving world.
I've been wet shaving for six years. I've bought a lot of shave products from many wonderful vendors and more recently artisan soap makers. I like the fact that I'm supporting someone with my cash purchases who is supportive of the wet shaving movement and community. Even though I've spent a lot of money on shave stuff, I feel that I'm the one that has benefited. I've benefited from top level service of good products. I've benefited from those vendors supporting forums such as B&B and others. More over, I've gotten to know some genuinely nice people who happen to be in the wet shaving business. It's important to me that I support nice, honorable, honest people, particularly when dealing with an artisan rather than a make believe nice, honorable , honest person.
The question has been raised by some, "what harm has been done"? Just ask those who were characterized as being villains simply for asking about labeling creative practices, labeled as crazy folks who for some reason became obsessed with attacking one particular soap maker. Also consider how many honest, small business people there are who are making wonderful soaps whose potential customers bought a HTGAM/PPF soap based on hyperbole and spun cloth instead of an honest artisan's product. Consider stories of "Douglas" bad-mouthing Cassie Maggard. If that's the kind of person that you want to do business with, that's your business.
Again, I say, "Douglas" if you really want to sincerely apologize, it's time to start repairing the damage done in perpetuating your mythology. Talk without action is cheap!
What I like most about this community is that it's very trustworthy and gentlemanly. As a man in my late 20's, let me tell you... my generation is greatly deprived of such places and practices. I've learned a lot from this community about being humble, honest, approachable, and as objective as possible, all while maintaining a sense of dignity and backbone.
But things grow and become more popular, and that's when snakes tend to come along. The good nature of this and other communities will always be seen as an opportunity for a profit by someone out there. People like "Doug Smythe" give American capitalism a bad name, and are responsible for the fact that we all use junky products in our daily lives today. The media blasting and shilling are things that entrepreneurs feel are necessary to become big shots or tycoons or figureheads or icons or whatever image they have of themselves in their heads. It's not about finding an effective way to make a living, but more about dominating a market share, claiming superiority, and inflating your own ego. And after they achieve some level of financial or critical success, that's when the quality of the products and services they provide typically begins to degrade. My guess is that if "Mr. Smythe" could have his way, every other artisan soap company would be wiped off the map, and we'd all be praising him as the godfather of the wet shaving "movement", all while making him rich and famous. That's the pattern that leads to a billion men pressing $4 cartridges against their face every morning. Someone wants your money because it makes them feel good, and they have to increase their margins by any means necessary to get it.
But they have to get popular first. They have to blast their name in every direction, be the loudest person in the room (or the internet), and become very recognizable.
I don't even need to look into the "ingredients" fiasco... this dude is, at best, sketchy... and he represents the polar opposite of everything that I like about the wet shaving community. Having a fun mustache and selling lots of soap does not make one a man of substance and integrity, which (to me) is of much greater importance than the quality of his (or anyone's) products. My generation cares too much about material nonsense, and not enough about respect, honesty, and ethics... that's why people get away with this behavior. We're desensitized to it, and it's almost considered normal.
$0.02
But things grow and become more popular, and that's when snakes tend to come along. The good nature of this and other communities will always be seen as an opportunity for a profit by someone out there. People like "Doug Smythe" give American capitalism a bad name, and are responsible for the fact that we all use junky products in our daily lives today. The media blasting and shilling are things that entrepreneurs feel are necessary to become big shots or tycoons or figureheads or icons or whatever image they have of themselves in their heads. It's not about finding an effective way to make a living, but more about dominating a market share, claiming superiority, and inflating your own ego. And after they achieve some level of financial or critical success, that's when the quality of the products and services they provide typically begins to degrade. My guess is that if "Mr. Smythe" could have his way, every other artisan soap company would be wiped off the map, and we'd all be praising him as the godfather of the wet shaving "movement", all while making him rich and famous. That's the pattern that leads to a billion men pressing $4 cartridges against their face every morning. Someone wants your money because it makes them feel good, and they have to increase their margins by any means necessary to get it.
But they have to get popular first. They have to blast their name in every direction, be the loudest person in the room (or the internet), and become very recognizable.
I don't even need to look into the "ingredients" fiasco... this dude is, at best, sketchy... and he represents the polar opposite of everything that I like about the wet shaving community. Having a fun mustache and selling lots of soap does not make one a man of substance and integrity, which (to me) is of much greater importance than the quality of his (or anyone's) products. My generation cares too much about material nonsense, and not enough about respect, honesty, and ethics... that's why people get away with this behavior. We're desensitized to it, and it's almost considered normal.
$0.02
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OK. Thanks, I don't have Facebook.
The lying about being former military for shilling is not acceptable in the US I understand.
Well, it seems to have blown up in his face. Never tried the soap - too recent me.
^Well said, Bob. My thoughts exactly.
Those are the two big issues with me.
The fastest thread ever on B&B. Try to keep up if you can.
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Well said. I might disagree though with your assertion that your generation being deprived of virtuous behavior. Good and Bad behavior are choices that we all can make. Believe me that there are not so nice people in every generations
Glad your here and thanks for a great post!
I'd like to know what's going on but this is too much to read!
I hope people aren't lumping Joe at IB/RR in with this Doug character. I saw some confusion earlier in the thread and don't see any reason to involve him.
I wouldn't care about shady marketing but misrepresenting yourself as a veteran crosses the line for me.
Also not sure why people are ripping on social networking sites on a social networking site
I wouldn't care about shady marketing but misrepresenting yourself as a veteran crosses the line for me.
Also not sure why people are ripping on social networking sites on a social networking site
If I were Douglas/Frances/Hodges/Erik/whoever (and I swear - I'm not!) I think it'd be best to just take my lumps, issue an apology, and try to get on as a single company. All this drama is for naught. Some people think it's a big deal, other people think it's not a big deal, but there isn't any life situation that can't be helped with a little honesty and humility. People who swear him off are going to continue to swear him off, and perhaps he can build a business from the remains of the two companies he's built.
Doesn't he claim to be a writer by trade? This is all probably just a elaborate backstory for his novel.
Well said chariot.salute.
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Misrepresenting a veteran to sell a product is not cool.
Sorry to hear about the PPF/HTGAM nonsense. They were both on the list to try - that list was too long and this makes it easy to edit them out. There are wide swarths of the populace that don't mind being jerked around by marketing; it appears the wet-shaving community is not in the group. Keep it honest, guys, and we'll reward you.
Misrepresenting one's self as a veteran would be most uncool, but does anyone know for certain that he did that? Or that he is not in fact a veteran? Lots of mystery here. It could all be cleared up pretty easily.
Also, I believe that misrepresenting one's self as a veteran is punishable by law.
Also, I believe that misrepresenting one's self as a veteran is punishable by law.
All of this reminds me of the 'Bartles & Jaymes' marketing tactics/fiasco in the late 80's. Hordes of people were offended and hurt because the likeable old characters on the TV commercials (Bartles & Jaymes) were not truly real. Sales for the company plummeted for a while, but then once the public laughed it off and forgot about it, sales continued to rise again. Please DO NOT read into this that I'm agreeing with what HTGAM/PPF has done (and yes, HTGAM/PPF has gone deeper down the rabbit hole than Bartles & Jaymes did as far as makebelieve goes... they've crossed ethical lines), I'm just saying that simply creating a persona (and even a believable one at that) to market and sell a product(s) has been going on since... well, forever. Ever wonder why they don't teach ethics at Harvard Business School?
Eh... looks like it's a Federal offense when there are specific decorations, commendations or honors involved.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Valor_Act_of_2005
There are also state laws in play, but otherwise, it's just being a jerk.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Valor_Act_of_2005
There are also state laws in play, but otherwise, it's just being a jerk.
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