Guide to American Button Company Pocket Edition Sets: Part Two - Cases

[Merkur25]

Great job. Thanks for the information

 

[Oldguy]

you often see these cases with standard old type razors and not the different razors with the more ornate handles. are these mismatched sets or are they some of the sets sold by gillette utilizing the cases with their standard razors?

I have a theory about this issue. Krumholz states in his book that ABC produced razors for Gillette for a few years prior to WWI. I believe that was probably around 1915. I believe that the razors with serial numbers after 1915 or with no serial number of the standard Gillette ball end pocket type in the fatter cases with no patent dates on the bottom were probably made by Gillette. It is also more likely that these sets are the basket weave design. You should also look inside the case and see if there is a press on patch with the Gillette diamond or if the diamond is printed on the whole backing. If there is a little patch it could indicate a transition period when Gillette started making the cases themselves. I have 13 ABC razors with serial numbers only up to 1911. I have three basket weave case and ball handle sets that are 1920 or no serial number. The cases are the newer, thicker style.

Len

 

[Veritas II]

Is this one an ABC or Gillette produced set?

The razor is a standard Old Type, but the case looks like an Empire. Either way, I'm excited for it to arrive.

 

[Blue-EyedSon]

Is this one an ABC or Gillette produced set?

The razor is a standard Old Type, but the case looks like an Empire. Either way, I'm excited for it to arrive.

That appears to be a set produced by Gillette. There are no patent dates on the back of the case and there is no patch on the inside lining to the top portion of the case. I don't know that I've ever seen a good way of distinguishing an actual ABC set from a set that looks like an ABC set but that was actually produced by Gillette.

 

[BIGACONCEPT]

Amazing job guys !! Great info and nice pic´s of some fantastic razors

 

[Oldguy]

Is this one an ABC or Gillette produced set?

The razor is a standard Old Type, but the case looks like an Empire. Either way, I'm excited for it to arrive.

When the set arrives please let us know what the serial number of the razor is. This set is very interesting and contradictory at the same time. When Gillette stopped marketing the sets made by ABC they continued to make pocket sets using the Old Type pocket razor and cases that looked like the ABC cases. I've seen a Flower case that was a little different but the most seen case is the weave design with larger weave squares then the ABC cases. I don't see any difference between the top of your case and the ABC Empire case. The latch design with the four rivets is also older then the razor. So my guess is that this set was probably made by Gillette during the phase out period of the ABC parts. The key is the date the razor was made if it is original to the case. This is a nice set I now wish I had bid on. I did see this auction. But I stopped buying ABC sets.

Len

 

[Blue-EyedSon]

For what it's worth, I have the same set. It has a case like the Empire design made by ABC with a regular ball end Old Type pocket edition razor. The serial number for the razor is: D331117 (1916). The lining to the case is almost completely gone and nothing helpful (i.e. the lining to the top half of the case) remains. But the bottom of the case lacks the patent dates. Thus, I think it is one of the ones made by Gillette. The top is identical to my other ABC Empire cases. If photos are helpful, I can upload those shortly.

 

[Oldguy]

Hi Brian,

Sure why not. Show us the top and the front part with latch rivets.

Len

 

[Blue-EyedSon]

Here are the photos. They aren't quite up to par in relation to the original photos for the main posting, but they should at least be conducive for this discussion. The ABC set is assembled (i.e. case and razor were purchased separately). But I think the ABC-like set is original. It is possible that someone put the razor in this case, but when I bought it, they came together. And for what it is worth, the blade cases that came with the two cases are different as well.

 

[Oldguy]

That's great Brian. The two cases appear to have been stamped from the same tool. I'll bet that if these sets were made by Gillette that they bought some of the tools from ABC.

Len

 

[chukka]

nice and very instructive thread .i have no idea the case i just got was that rare .thanks for sharing .

 

[Veritas II]

When the set arrives please let us know what the serial number of the razor is. This set is very interesting and contradictory at the same time. When Gillette stopped marketing the sets made by ABC they continued to make pocket sets using the Old Type pocket razor and cases that looked like the ABC cases. I've seen a Flower case that was a little different but the most seen case is the weave design with larger weave squares then the ABC cases. I don't see any difference between the top of your case and the ABC Empire case. The latch design with the four rivets is also older then the razor. So my guess is that this set was probably made by Gillette during the phase out period of the ABC parts. The key is the date the razor was made if it is original to the case. This is a nice set I now wish I had bid on. I did see this auction. But I stopped buying ABC sets.

Len

The set arrived yesterday. I will post some pics after I get it cleaned. The serial number of the razor is L119701, making it a 1920 production.

 

[Veritas II]

As noted above, the razor dates to 1920. The case differs from the ones in Brian's original post in that the lining is maroon rather than blue. The Gillette diamond is screen printed rather than patched. The bottom of the case does not have the patent dates, nor Pocket Edition. Clearly this is a Gillette-produced case with a standard Old Type. The only providence available is the 'Bay listing that indicated that the family didn't know why grandpa's razor was in such good condition, but that it was definitely his (for what that's worth). So there is no firm proof that this is the original razor for this case but if the 'Bay listing is accurate, odds are that it is original.

This is the best I could do with the serial number.

...and finally, in its new home:

 

[Oldguy]

This is a really nice looking set. I believe it's a newer Gillette set as well. Also the blade case is the newer style. The older style supplied with the ABC sets has a scored base for striking matches.

Len

 

[gearchow]

What a great tutorial! And thanks for giving me something else to think about. I was just only going to work on completing the Schick Injector G series...



This needs to be in the wiki.

-jim

 

[tomviolence]

I just picked up an ABC set on the bay for $31.00. Looking at this article really helped figuring out if it was all correct. It is a 1911 shell set, #502.

Take a look at the ad on mr razor's site . You can see the 4 rivets on the front of the box in the ad. I wish the ad showed the razor, but I bet it is the version 6 variant, with the taper. (As the one in my new found set has that.)

Really cool to be able to drill down to these details. Kinda like razor archeology .....

 

[amishmotorboat]

I just saw a case variation in a pocket edition set. It has a price on the patch. It says $5. It has all the other trimmings of an ABC set, like the lack of Made in USA, but has no patent info stamped in the bottom.

Also, regarding this patent info stamp:
What of single ring cases with that same stamp on the bottom? Are those ABC or Gillette?

edited to fix a brain fart - staring at 2 different sets in tabs, one ABC, one Gillette.

 

[Veritas II]

Here's mine (referenced above), post cleaning:

 

[sparcotsi]

I've got a replica made only from gilette of the basket weave and the flower pattern, I've been wondering how to tell if they were actually made by the button company or not, thanks!

 

[Deltaboy]

NICE thanks for sharing some thing else to hunt for now.