Gillette New SC, LC, De luxe handle compatibility

[romsitsa]

Hello,

got confused, need help.
Some New LC combs had a narrow opening ot the bottom to accept ball end handles. These doesn't accept regular common bar, De luxe or Old type handles:
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/The NEW/1930s NEW Canada.JPG

Other LC combs have a wider opening that accepts common bar handles:
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/The NEW/1933 Exposition Model.JPG

SC combs also have a wider opening to accept common bar handles.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/The NEW/1930s Norfolk gold beschriftet-Logo.jpg

But then there is this, seemingly a narrow opening on a SC comb.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/The NEW/1936 NEW Somerset Nickel.JPG

De luxe models came with the widest neck pieces, no other heads fit.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/The NEW/1931 NEW Lady De Luxe Jade beschriftet Logo.JPG.jpg

Why have Otto Roth marked LC combs have a very wide opening, seemingly enough to accept De luxe handles if these only came with a narrow lip thin common bar?
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/The NEW/1930s NEW Gillette-Rotbart Hybrid.jpg

Someone wrote earlier that the neck/opening size changes happened pre-post 1932, but why?

Thanks

Adam

 

[jruschme]

The earliest version of the New is the New LC which initially came with a version of the ball-end handle from the Old Type. These had a narrow handle.

The Common Bar handle came along around the same time as the "reissue patent" New LC razors. Those razors have a larger opening for a wider fluted handle. The Otto Roth razors use the same reissue patent baseplate, except for the brand stamping, and hard a larger opening as a result, despite shipping with a narrower handle.

The New SC actually comes in two variants- one narrow and one wide.

 

[romsitsa]

Hello,

the early LC won't fit classic Old type ball end handles, only the ones with a New neck, the difference is minor, but it's there.
So there are LC and SC base plates with the reissue patent and narrow or wider openings?
The first was the narrow LC then narrow SC, then wide LC and SC?

Adam

 

[jmudrick]

I see no reason to presume such a linear progression took place. Gillette was in chaos during this period after the Autostrop take over with as we discussed, production taking place not only in continuing Gillette facilities but in former Autostrop facilities as well. It's perfectly plausible that different spec razors were to some extent after the LC-ballend and New Deluxe initial releases being released concurrently. This chaos seems to have lasted through the entire production period including the transition to the stamped Tech baseplate as is evidenced by the number of caps (as well as handles) fitted to these razors for no apparent reason other than trying to move part's.

As I've noted many times, the Common Bar Handle was designed by the accounting department, not engineers, who were required to pass on a razor designed for the first time to meet a one dollar price point.

 

[REV579]

Hello,

got confused, need help.
Some New LC combs had a narrow opening ot the bottom to accept ball end handles. These doesn't accept regular common bar, De luxe or Old type handles:
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/The NEW/1930s NEW Canada.JPG

Other LC combs have a wider opening that accepts common bar handles:
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/The NEW/1933 Exposition Model.JPG

SC combs also have a wider opening to accept common bar handles.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/The NEW/1930s Norfolk gold beschriftet-Logo.jpg

But then there is this, seemingly a narrow opening on a SC comb.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/The NEW/1936 NEW Somerset Nickel.JPG

De luxe models came with the widest neck pieces, no other heads fit.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/The NEW/1931 NEW Lady De Luxe Jade beschriftet Logo.JPG.jpg

Why have Otto Roth marked LC combs have a very wide opening, seemingly enough to accept De luxe handles if these only came with a narrow lip thin common bar?
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/The NEW/1930s NEW Gillette-Rotbart Hybrid.jpg

Someone wrote earlier that the neck/opening size changes happened pre-post 1932, but why?

Thanks

Adam

It’s that bizarre love triangle between Probak, Otto Roth, and Gillette.
2019 will be a bizarre year when it comes to assessing data. While I prefer first hand knowledge and experience over 2nd hand, I still have good data for now. Adam, don’t mess that up!
Looking at my NEW handles, the Uncommon Bar(LC)(Red & Black Case): ferrule just over 10.11mm, or 0.3.98in. and a perfect match for the comb opening.
Milady New Deluxe Handle: 10.13mm or 0.399in.
NI Tuckaway Handle: 10.33mm or .40in
Probak Handle: 10.33mm or 0.40in.
Thin Common Bar w/Large Ferrule bought with Probak Head: 10mm or 3.93in, not quite as perfect as I originally thought.
Common Bar w/Otto Roth LC: 10.33mm or 0.40in
Thin Common Bar w/Otto Roth LC: 8.69mm or 0.34in
Boxed Thin Common Bar(SC): 8.65mm or 0.34in and a perfect match for the comb opening.
Thin Uncommon Bar(SC): 8.75mm or .34in
Hybrid Big Boy: Small Ferrule too.
Ball End(OT): 8.75mm or 0.34in
*all of my Otto Roth combs are milled for a large ferrule.

 

[romsitsa]

Thanks Rev, one question, does your your Ball end (8,75 mm) have any patents and does it fit a New head?
My OT Ball ends are roughly 9 mm, around your 8,75 mm and don't fit New LC (no patent) heads.
The seemingly OT ball ends (no patent on barrel), which fit a New LC (no patent) head have a 8 mm ferrule. Ball end New handles also measure 8 mm.

On a second look, LC New heads with no patents (early?) only fit ball end handles as the opening on the comb is exactly 8 mm.

Adam

 

[REV579]

I apologize for missing your reply. I will have a chance to look at my LC’s later today and share what I find. I do have LC’s with and without patent numbers, so I may be of some help.

 

[Graydog]

Gillette also used spare parts , if they had a large run on a particular razors
one year and had leftovers they would find a way to use up what they had on the next batch of new razors .
Remember Gillette wanted to sell blades not collectable Razors
Here is a thread started sometime ago that shows a bunch of different NEWs
(GNU)

 

[Graydog]

 

[Useless shaver]

Gillette also used spare parts , if they had a large run on a particular razors
one year and had leftovers they would find a way to use up what they had on the next batch of new razors .
Remember Gillette wanted to sell blades not collectable Razors
Here is a thread started sometime ago that shows a bunch of different NEWs
(GNU)

Yup... waste not, want not.

 

[REV579]

No Patent Number Comb
8.75mm Ball End
8.6mm Common Bar
8.75mm Ball End

 

[REV579]

I was looking for the Cap picture like this, with the various cap-types. Do you happen to have it saved?