Gillette double ring questions

[shavefreak]

Thanks to Porter, MacDaddy and Alex and all the old Gillette talk lately, however it brings up more questions for me.

1. The fist run double rings did they all come in the leather cases with the blade banks? with all they started to crank out I wonder if there was a more basic packaging eve up to the single ring?

2. Were they super stainless steel looking shiny when made? Should we clean then as collectors and make them shiny or leave them darker with age?

2. Blades: This $600.00 sale seems to be the most original I have seen as the razor blades have the printing curving around the blade. Are these blades common or rare? My singles and double have writing around the blade in wax covered little boxes but not like these curving in and around.

Thanks guys

 

[Mike H]

I am pretty sure;
1. They all came in the leather box with blade boxes.
2. They were triple silver plated.
3. Blades info can be found here

 

[shavefreak]

Thanks mike - I think Mr razor does not have the early early razor like in the link above unless it is just a wrapper. (Correction the notch makes it the original 1903)

 

[Manning]

Thanks to Porter, MacDaddy and Alex and all the old Gillette talk lately, however it brings up more questions for me.

1. The fist run double rings did they all come in the leather cases with the blade banks? with all they started to crank out I wonder if there was a more basic packaging eve up to the single ring?

2. Were they super stainless steel looking shiny when made? Should we clean then as collectors and make them shiny or leave them darker with age?

2. Blades: This $600.00 sale seems to be the most original I have seen as the razor blades have the printing curving around the blade. Are these blades common or rare? My singles and double have writing around the blade in wax covered little boxes but not like these curving in and around.

Thanks guys

As far as blades. In that auction, the one in the paper with the writing in and around is newer than the loose blades in the packages of 12. The one blade in the wrapper on the inside has writing on it not to be sharpened. Like this



The blades in the wrapper were designed to be rehoned--sorry dont have any pictures of those, but they definitely pre-date the one above.

 

[shavefreak]

So you are saying this blade here is the first model?

As far as blades. In that auction, the one in the paper with the writing in and around is newer than the loose blades in the packages of 12. The one blade in the wrapper on the inside has writing on it not to be sharpened. Like this

View attachment 316055

The blades in the wrapper were designed to be rehoned--sorry dont have any pictures of those, but they definitely pre-date the one above.

 

[MacDaddy]

1. The fist run double rings did they all come in the leather cases with the blade banks? with all they started to crank out I wonder if there was a more basic packaging eve up to the single ring?

There's some conjecture as to whether the leather cases were actually originally provided by the Gillette Sales Company, which back in these early years was a separate entity that bought the razors from the Gillette Safety Razor Company for distribution. In your older thread, mblakele excerpted the page from the Gillette Blade issue that showed the pasteboard box and lithographed tin sets that Nickerson mentions they used in those early years:



Then later in that thread I posted a photo of one of those litho tins (below), and it's interesting to note that they read "Gillette Safety Razor Company" rather than "Gillette Sales Company" as the ribbons in the early leather cases did. It's possible that the Sales Company was doing the packaging for all the retailers who bought from them in bulk, but if someone wrote to Gillette directly to order a set it was sent to them in first the pasteboard box and then later in the litho tin. That's entirely conjecture, but it seems a reasonable guess to me.

2. Were they super stainless steel looking shiny when made? Should we clean then as collectors and make them shiny or leave them darker with age?

They would have been sold shiny like any other silver good. However, it would appear that there were also gold Double Rings available for purchase (see the clipping from the 1905 catalog below), not that I nor anyone else that I'm aware of has ever seen one...

 

[Manning]

So you are saying this blade here is the first model?

No, I am fairly certain those are not the first model because of the not to be resharpened writing. Like I said, the oldest blades that I am aware of that came with the double rings were designed to be resharpened so there would be no writing on them indicating they should not be resharpened.

I have seen them, but I cant recall what they look like. Perhaps the owner of the set in the auction will come along and give us some indication.

 

[shavefreak]

Very cool info. I kind of thought there was no way they could crank out cases as fast as the razors so the white box makes sense, Oh to find one of those would be cooler than the case I think. Plus I think we established that tin is after the patent approval as it indicates.

There's some conjecture as to whether the leather cases were actually originally provided by the Gillette Sales Company, which back in these early years was a separate entity that bought the razors from the Gillette Safety Razor Company for distribution. In your older thread, mblakele excerpted the page from the Gillette Blade issue that showed the pasteboard box and lithographed tin sets that Nickerson mentions they used in those early years:



Then later in that thread I posted a photo of one of those litho tins (below), and it's interesting to note that they read "Gillette Safety Razor Company" rather than "Gillette Sales Company" as the ribbons in the early leather cases did. It's possible that the Sales Company was doing the packaging for all the retailers who bought from them in bulk, but if someone wrote to Gillette directly to order a set it was sent to them in first the pasteboard box and then later in the litho tin. That's entirely conjecture, but it seems a reasonable guess to me.

They would have been sold shiny like any other silver good. However, it would appear that there were also gold Double Rings available for purchase (see the clipping from the 1905 catalog below), not that I nor anyone else that I'm aware of has ever seen one...

View attachment 316072

 

[shavefreak]

Gillette's whole purpose in the industry was to make a disposable blade I doubt there was a resharpened blade unless you mean recycled where Gillette would take them and re-work. I do recall where they encouraged blades to be sent back to get newer ones, I would like to see that blade.

No, I am fairly certain those are not the first model because of the not to be resharpened writing. Like I said, the original blades that came with the double rings were designed to be resharpened so there would be no writing on them indicating they should not be resharpened.

I have seen them, but I cant recall what they look like. Perhaps the owner of the set in the auction will come along and give us some indication.

 

[shavefreak]

Ok I found on Razor Archive it says the writing around the holes is 1904 and the notched blade is 1903. So you are right about that blade being newer Mike. I beleive the one on Mr Razor above (red background) is the orignal 1903 notched blade.

So I must pursue a non serial numbered double ring in a white box with the notched blades. My double ring is far far to young.

 

[alex2363]

Then later in that thread I posted a photo of one of those litho tins (below), and it's interesting to note that they read "Gillette Safety Razor Company" rather than "Gillette Sales Company" as the ribbons in the early leather cases did. It's possible that the Sales Company was doing the packaging for all the retailers who bought from them in bulk, but if someone wrote to Gillette directly to order a set it was sent to them in first the pasteboard box and then later in the litho tin. That's entirely conjecture, but it seems a reasonable guess to me



They would have been sold shiny like any other silver good. However, it would appear that there were also gold Double Rings available for purchase (see the clipping from the 1905 catalog below), not that I nor anyone else that I'm aware of has ever seen one...

View attachment 316072

If some one wrote to Gillette to order a set why would they send them in the pasteboard box first then in the litho tin?

 

[alex2363]

Gillette's whole purpose in the industry was to make a disposable blade I doubt there was a resharpened blade unless you mean recycled where Gillette would take them and re-work. I do recall where they encouraged blades to be sent back to get newer ones, I would like to see that blade.

Gillette did ask for the blades to be sent back but they could not resharpen them due to the way they were made. The blade was tempered very hard and grounded on special machines that made resharpen improbable. Howerver , there were certain machines that existed and it could resharpen these blades, but Gillette official Mr.Pelham stated that he opposed these machines due concern over public health issues that could arise. He did not believe that it was a healthy thing to resharpen these blades and sell them off to the public. That is one reason why Gillette stopped taking the blades back and it was also not profitable for Gillette. ( They had tons of blades after each exchange/return was received and couldnt do much with them)

 

[alex2363]

2. Blades: This $600.00 sale seems to be the most original I have seen as the razor blades have the printing curving around the blade. Are these blades common or rare? My singles and double have writing around the blade in wax covered little boxes but not like these curving in and around.

Thanks guys

blades forum http://badgerandblade.com/vb/forumdisplay.php/91-Safety-Razor-Blades

 

[MacDaddy]

If some one wrote to Gillette to order a set why would they send them in the pasteboard box first then in the litho tin?

Sorry, I was a bit unclear there. I wasn't talking about to the same person. What I meant there was that it's possible that those boxes and tins were used for sets that were ordered directly from the Safety Razor Company (rather than through the Sales Company), and that they started out using the pasteboard boxes at first and later the lithographed tins.

Gillette did ask for the blades to be sent back but they could not resharpen them due to the way they were made. The blade was tempered very hard and grounded on special machines that made resharpen improbable. Howerver , there were certain machines that existed and it could resharpen these blades, but Gillette official Mr.Pelham stated that he opposed these machines due concern over public health issues that could arise. He did not believe that it was a healthy thing to resharpen these blades and sell them off to the public. That is one reason why Gillette stopped taking the blades back and it was also not profitable for Gillette. ( They had tons of blades after each exchange/return was received and couldnt do much with them)

I might be taking us a touch far afield from the original thread here, but this is a little bit of a misreading of a couple of different sections of Pelham's testimony before the House Subcommittee on Patents. You're right about the first part, which is that at the outset Gillette did originally include a one-for-two trade-in offer where they'd give you six new blades in exchange for 12 dull ones, presumably because they thought they'd be able to resharpen and resell them. However, Pelham says in this section of his testimony that it turned out that they weren't able to. In the Jubilee Issue of the Gillette Blade, however, Pelham attributes their decision to discontinue the offer to the unsanitary conditions of handling all the used blades:



While those both may certainly be true, you also have to consider that Pelham was the head of Gillette's Sales Department, so in both cases he may be doing some amount of spinning to provide cover to the underlying business reason to have gotten rid of the replacement offer -- that once Gillette had achieved a foothold in the marketplace it was no longer necessary and certainly not financially advantageous, just like you said.

The second aspect of what you're talking about there seems to come from this section of Pelham's testimony:




What he was saying there was that Gillette did not oppose to the manufacture and sale of devices to hone or strop dull Gillette blades (regardless of whether or not they actually worked). What they did oppose, however, were businesses that sold resharpened used blades as new ones, or that offered sharpening services for a price (including some strikingly racist and classist reasoning there, BTW). But, if someone believed that a honing or stropping device actually worked and prolonged the life of his own blades, then more power to him.

 

[jbradley]

It is very racist to us today I agree. But this was only 15-20 years after slavery was prohibited. It is striking to find this type of statement in a Congressional hearing isn't it? To me, it shows how far we have came as a people and a nation int he last 100 years.

Now, back to our previously stated purpose, are there any known examples of the Double Ring in gold? It was twice the price at a time when $5 was real money.

 

[Mark1966]

Now, back to our previously stated purpose, are there any known examples of the Double Ring in gold? It was twice the price at a time when $5 was real money.

Not that have been posted here. There have been a couple of threads asking about it but nobody has put up their hand.

There is an early 1906 gold plated single ring known as mentioned in this thread, I think that this is the closest we come.

 

[jbradley]

Not that have been posted here. There have been a couple of threads asking about it but nobody has put up their hand.

There is an early 1906 gold plated single ring known as mentioned in this thread, I think that this is the closest we come.

That's a shame. It almost makes me cry to think that there are some somewhere, lying in the bottom of a garbage dump. I wonder if there are any records of how many were gold vs silver?

 

[MacDaddy]

That's a shame. It almost makes me cry to think that there are some somewhere, lying in the bottom of a garbage dump.

Then you really don't want to see this ad from sometime in early to mid-1906... Check out the price list there. They were also available in Sterling silver for $15.

 

[shavefreak]

Guys is there a blade pictography anywhere? - Achim has what looks like the notched blade above and then I assume the non notched version and then the interwoven text? would love a blade time line.

 

[jbradley]

Huh! This one is from 1905, Silver for $5 with 12 blades, Gold for $10 with 12 blades.

View attachment 316072

This one is from 1906, one year later, Silver is still $5, Gold has gone up to $15.

Then you really don't want to see this ad from sometime in early to mid-1906... Check out the price list there. They were also available in Sterling silver for $15.

But from this link, gold was $21 an once from 1880 to 1930. Wonder why the price hike in the gold ones? According to this link, silver went up from $.58 to $.61 per troy ounce. But they stayed the same.