Flat or die.

[Singing in the brain]

First thing I want to say is that I live in a flat.
Second is, I no longer have in possession a reference-flatness thingy and it bothers me, so Im gonna do 3 stone method-thingy with some hard stones and loose grit and:
X/ Rest from my work only in the grave.
X/Take notes
X/ get total flatness
X/and true this decent steel ruler I've got to kingdom gone, and perhaps diy this piece of steel into something that's at least *alot* straighter than the straightness of like most things around I guess? It would be nice if so. Improve something that's already at home, and and not just buy another thing. Then keep doing 3 stone flattening method on everything I own for a while longer and at least something pretty feckn straight, kinda.

I have the time, but not the money. But I believe I can do it.
I could just buy one, but no.
A decent goal I think.

 

[Singing in the brain]

I don't know, what do you think about this project. Measure with the blade of a beat up but rather straight Hultafors carpentersquare, rub stones, get a really flat India and work the ruler freehand, then trueing it somehow. I have a machinist square that will aid together with a jig or a really true piece of something, and get something to lean on. Maybe just clamp something down straight on the India. It can take it.
Light strokes after freehanding the ruler anyhow.

The ruler is looking a little like a crossection of your well used king. Not very much at all, but enough to quickly look away and start muttering. I think it was decently straight at some point and the dish from wearing out.
Only thing is the India is small, and will mean more work in all ways since the ruler/future straight edge, is 13" or 350mm, so that's that.

Like playing machinist and sharpening iceskates with a ruler, at the same time.

 

[Singing in the brain]

Here's the notes so far

 

[Singing in the brain]

I think I managed to get the wider half of this 300x60/75 piece of hard rock-tile-something, pretty flat with the synths and 60 grit powder. But there's alot of work to be done to get a bigger surface, and I really could use better tools than the hultafors and a feeler gouge that goes down to 0.05 mm, but I've mapped all surfaces to that measurement so that gives me a direction on what areas to work next time. I can imagine Ive been doing this better, if I actually was good at lapping but I'm really not. But it's Intresting somehow.

All this of course, is to be able to shave, like a normal person. And so that my colleagues at the new workplace think I'm serious.

 

[Empire straights]

If they are hard stones I don't know if you even need grit, just water and the 3 stone method. People have been doing it in rivers for thousands of years and our obsession with utter flatness to a millionth of an inch for knives and straight razors it a relatively new compulsion. In my experience though flat enough(lay it on the counter or piece of glass and shine light) is good enough, for me at least. I just shaved with a SRD razor that I hated the edge on initially(all synthetics) and I just had the best, smothers, closest shave off my life with stones that are "flat enough". I have a straight edge but I usually never use it unless I get a stone that has a huge belly and I'm working on it. I never use grid lines though.

 

[Singing in the brain]

I think I managed to get the wider half of this 300x60/75 piece of hard rock-tile-something, pretty flat with a fine India, sic-stone and 60 grit powder. Perhaps I could skip the sic-powder but so far I do believe it's helping.
The trick so far is of course checking each surface for assumed flatness and focus and marking out where the low spots begin with the square and thinned blade on the feeler gauge and come up with some sort of plan, while being aware of roughly the amount of mass were working with, and perhaps also get insight in and how much time is suitable for each high spot.
The pencil trick is discarded for this, and I think it's to the benefit of learning to see in more detail with the eye how each object is dished and if there's a direction in the dishing, like on the diagonal for example and what needs to be done. Also at this point, I think I got more awareness on what the unevenness of the stones feel like, so that and eying against the light makes the pencil trick remain remain at the door and not get involved.
I thought about trying some aggressive kinda coloring fluid instead of the pencil, perhaps it's more durable since the sic and water and all, and also, at least the India is an oilstone.

All this of course, is to be able to shave, like a normal person. And so that my colleagues at the new workplace think I'm serious.

 

[Tomo]

For this to be effective, it is important to use stones of similar hardness and size. Ideally the stones will be of identical makeup. You won’t get a dished diamond flat with quartz no matter how long you rub them together.

 

[bluesman 7]

For this to be effective, it is important to use stones of similar hardness and size. Ideally the stones will be of identical makeup. You won’t get a dished diamond flat with quartz no matter how long you rub them together.

I was kind of thinking the same thing, but the 3 stone technique is still valid as a gage even if the stones are not abrasive and they are just used as gages against each other.

I have used this technique to check and correct 3 straight edges. I was using the one edge of each checked against each other and making corrections with stones. I then checked the other edge of each straight edge against my newly proven straight edges

 

[eKretz]

You do not need them to be of similar material and hardness. It is going to be a much quicker process if they are, but absolutely not necessary. If you keep working in the A-B, B-C, A-C rotation, even dissimilar materials with varying hardness will eventually arrive at flatness. It just may take a lot more rotations to get there.

Even the example of diamond vs quartz would get there. Eventually. Just might take a few decades depending on surface area... and I'm not guaranteeing there would be much quartz left at the end...

 

[bluesman 7]

Right @eKretz , but I wanted to point out that the three things that are being made straight or flat do not have to be their own abraders. It sounds as though one of the OP's 'stones' is actually a tile filling in for third base.

A separate rub stone could be used to take down the high spots on each stone and just use the 3 stone method as a gage to find the high spots like I did with the straight edges. Rubbing the straight edges against each other to accomplish the same result would have been a bit silly.

 

[bluesman 7]

More three stone babble here;

How did the old-timers hone their razors?

According to Wikipedia straight razors have been around since the 1600's - so before you could go on eBay to get stones of various grits and all the stuff needed to keep them flat, how did owners of razors maintain them?

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Not sure the point of this project? What are the stones pictured, look like an India stone and a Carborundum? If so, they will likely be too course for razor honing.

But if you want to flatten, mark a grid on the stones with a sharpie, not pencil. Pencil will wash off with slurry.

Lap with 60 grit and water on a Steel cookie sheet, glass, marble, and granite tile will quickly dish.

Once you can remove 90 percent of a new sharpie grid marks in 10-20 laps you are flat… enough.

 

[eKretz]

Right @eKretz , but I wanted to point out that the three things that are being made straight or flat do not have to be their own abraders. It sounds as though one of the OP's 'stones' is actually a tile filling in for third base.

A separate rub stone could be used to take down the high spots on each stone and just use the 3 stone method as a gage to find the high spots like I did with the straight edges. Rubbing the straight edges against each other to accomplish the same result would have been a bit silly.

That's true. Although he did mention using some loose silicon carbide grit in between to make things go a good bit faster.

 

[Singing in the brain]

Ä

Not sure the point of this project? What are the stones pictured, look like an India stone and a Carborundum? If so, they will likely be too course for razor honing.

But if you want to flatten, mark a grid on the stones with a sharpie, not pencil. Pencil will wash off with slurry.

Lap with 60 grit and water on a Steel cookie sheet, glass, marble, and granite tile will quickly dish.

Once you can remove 90 percent of a new sharpie grid marks in 10-20 laps you are flat… enough.

Yeah I get what your saying, but I want more.
The idea is to get a higher precision reference to check with, than what I already have, with the stuff at home.
I don't really see the benefit of using a cookie lid at this point, but maybe I'm missing out.
I've done 3 stone method with care for a couple of years and thaught I'd save myself the cost of buying a better ruler, and getting a hopefully really flat fine India and a flatter slab to use as reference while flattening my other stuff.
It's not like I finish on the India and head for the bathroom...

 

[Singing in the brain]

This is also to step away a bit from the pencil trick, and instead "measure" (with the feeler gouge) the dishing, and mapping out hi's and lows with a pen directly on the stone.
So far, this let's me:
-Get a result similar to the pencil trick by looking at the stone, without making a mess.
- the shape and direction of the highspots to give.

 

[Singing in the brain]

For this to be effective, it is important to use stones of similar hardness and size. Ideally the stones will be of identical makeup. You won’t get a dished diamond flat with quartz no matter how long you rub them together.

Perhaps your right. My reasoning is if I settle with the compromise that the stones simply are "pretty hard" , and also available, it gives me something to work with right away.
And since the three stones rotation thing works, the result of the flattness of the stones, hopefully will out do the straightness of the ruler.

 

[Singing in the brain]

More three stone babble here;

https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/how-did-the-old-timers-hone-their-razors.617879/#

http://

Proper thread!