Ever noticed that The NEW has a heavier SC base plate?

[anaguma]

Caution: We're in true geek territory here!

Puzzle me this: I just got two The NEW razors. One of them is a LC "Red & Black" set. The other is a SC "Bostonian" set. Both have the "common bar" handle. However, when I first picked them up the SC (Bostonian) seemed heavier than the LC (Red & Black). When I weighed them, I found the overall weight to be slightly different. So, I weighed each indivual piece and found that, while the bar handles and top plates are the same weight, the base plate of the LC is around 15g, but the base place of the SC is about 2 grams heavier.

Natually, the base plate constructions are different, but contrary to common sense, the base plate of the LC is lighter than that of the SC. Has anyone else ever noticed this?

Here are some comparison pictures of the LC and SC base plates:
View attachment 334882View attachment 334883

 

[Mick]

Hummm.....

 

[taco8slo]

I noticed variances in some plates but never weighed them. Is the Deluxe version even heavier? Some of the British versions seem like they could be heavier too.

 

[elmerwood]

I noticed variances in some plates but never weighed them. Is the Deluxe version even heavier? Some of the British versions seem like they could be heavier too.

My Deluxe head was 21g and the long comb 15g

 

[anaguma]

Mine isn't a Deluxe. The Deluxe has a plate that is flat on the bottom, right? The NEW bottom plate has a curved ridge in it (as seen in the pictures I originally posted, and those below).

The weight of my NEW SC plate is 17.5g (handle, 22g, top 14g).

I became interested in this topic because I have noticed that some forum members say that they liked the SC over the LC. Besides the obvious differences in comb length, I wondered if there were other differences. The SC is a little heavier that the LC (which seemed kind of odd to me), but after comparing them more closely, the construction of the SC is "beefier".

Also, I have noticed that there is definitely more of a gap between the top and bottom plates on the LC than the SC. This is more noticable when a blade is sandwiched between them.

I will try to take some pictures to illustrate what I'm trying to describe in words. For now, here are some pictures I actually took of the razor I bought:

 

[MacDaddy]

I can't say that I ever really noticed the difference, but looking at your profile shots side by side, you can see that there's actually a fair bit more metal in the short-comb plate. Here's an animation where I overlay the two so you can see the difference a little better. The extra length of the comb is about the only place where the long-comb plate has more material than the short-comb plate.

 

[anaguma]

The extra length of the comb is about the only place where the long-comb plate has more material than the short-comb plate.

Porter, great animations! They're very useful for comparison, but if you'll compare the two plates in post #1, the two that you have used in you pictures are not the same. The lack of solid model names makes this difficult to discuss. However, I am talking about a SC Bostonian (post 1 bottom picture) and a LC Black & Red (post 1 top picture). Which two plates have you used?

Today, if my kids will give some time to do it, I'll try to take some goods pictures to show exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[MacDaddy]

Those are your same two images. The first frame of the animation is the Short Comb by itself, and the second frame is the Long Comb laid over top of it, lined up using the center channel as a guide, so that you can see where the Short Comb has more material that extends beyond the Long Comb's profile.

If that still doesn't make sense I'll make an annotated version tomorrow for you.

 

[anaguma]

Oh! I see what you did. It is kind of hard to tell one from the other, though. Do you think you could add color to them so that the difference between the long comb and the short comb stand out more dramatically? For instance, if the LC were red and the SC were blue, it would be easier to see how, in fact, the short comb has more mass to it.

If I knew how to make an animated GIF, I could try this myself. I managed to take more photos, and I'll try to teach myself some cool animation techniques, too.

 

[anaguma]

I took some more pictures that will hopefully better show what I'm talking about. Note: I've changed one of the terms. Earlier, I use "base plate" to indicate the part which has the actual combs on it. Below, I've used the term "guard". I found this term used in a 1914 Gillette catalog and thought it might be more accurate.

Picture 1 - Here, you can see the extra mass of the SC guard compared to the construction of the LC guard. The design of the SC guard on this particular razor gives it an extra 1.5 grams of weight over the LC shown next to it.

Picture 2 - Not as easy to see in the photos is (what I feel to be) an ever-so-slightly larger gap between the bottom of the blade and the top of the guard (combs) on the LC compared to the SC. Perhaps it is just me, but when I compare the actual razors, I feel that there is slightly larger gap on the LC. This could give it a more aggressive feel compared to the SC.

These factors can be used in two ways, I feel. The different weights and slighty different gap on each guard might be some of the reasons why people prefer one type (SC or LC) over the other.

Secondly, these features can aid in identifying which type of razor you have. I feel that rather than talking about a certain model (The NEW or Bostonian), we have to go as far as mention what kinds of parts make up that certain razor. Even among short combed razors there are different types, such as the difference between the "Bostonian" and, say, a "Criterion". Both of which are SC, but have different styles of construction, and overall weights.

 

[MacDaddy]

Oh! I see what you did. It is kind of hard to tell one from the other, though. Do you think you could add color to them so that the difference between the long comb and the short comb stand out more dramatically? For instance, if the LC were red and the SC were blue, it would be easier to see how, in fact, the short comb has more mass to it.

Here you go. I made the Short Comb red and the Long Comb blue so that the places where the Short Comb extends beyond the Long Comb's profile would stand out better:

Picture 2 - Not as easy to see in the photos is (what I feel to be) an ever-so-slightly larger gap between the bottom of the blade and the top of the guard (combs) on the LC compared to the SC. Perhaps it is just me, but when I compare the actual razors, I feel that there is slightly larger gap on the LC. This could give it a more aggressive feel compared to the SC.

You can't judge just by the size of the gap under the blade. You also have to look at where the blade sits relative to the plane created by the cap and the guard. My impression of the short-comb NEWs has always been that they seem more aggressive than their long-comb counterparts. Looking at your photos here the blade in the Short Comb does seem to sit out farther than the Long Comb's does. This is the opposite of what Bill's photos showed in his "Photo Analysis of Razor Designs" thread, but it better matches my assessments of the two models from my own experience.

Secondly, these features can aid in identifying which type of razor you have. I feel that rather than talking about a certain model (The NEW or Bostonian), we have to go as far as mention what kinds of parts make up that certain razor. Even among short combed razors there are different types, such as the difference between the "Bostonian" and, say, a "Criterion". Both of which are SC, but have different styles of construction, and overall weights.

We already do differentiate what you're talking about here. The Criterion is a "NEW DeLuxe" set rather than a standard NEW. The NEW DeLuxe head is very similar to the short-comb standard NEW, except that the bottom of the guard plate is completely flat across the center, where the short-comb guard plate has some material removed (though less than the long-comb guard plate) which reveals the center rib. The standard NEWs we just call long-comb and short-comb NEWs, so unless there's some other significant variation that I'm missing I'm not sure exactly what's being confused here.

 

[anaguma]

I made the Short Comb red and the Long Comb blue so that the places where the Short Comb extends beyond the Long Comb's profile would stand out better.

Thanks a lot for that. It really helps to see the differences between the Short Comb and the Long Comb. It's also pretty trippy looking!

You can't judge just by the size of the gap under the blade. You also have to look at where the blade sits relative to the plane created by the cap and the guard.

Yes, I agree completely. This is something that I had not considered. Unfortunately, it's something that is beyond my ability to measure.

My impression of the short-comb NEWs has always been that they seem more aggressive than their long-comb counterparts.

This is what prompted me to start this thread in the first place. I am exactly the opposite to you (and other people who have the same opinion), and I was wondering just exactly what it is (beyond simply YMMV) that gives people their impressions of the Long and Short Combs vis-a-vis "agressiveness." To me, the Short Comb is less agressive. The Long, more.

We can say that a 9 on a Fat Boy is more agressive that a setting of 1. But, what is it about the NEW that makes it difficult to come to a concensus? I mean, these are just little bits of metal we're talking about here. It's a physical thing, right?

Looking at your photos here the blade in the Short Comb does seem to sit out farther than the Long Comb's does. This is the opposite of what Bill's photos showed in his "Photo Analysis of Razor Designs" thread, but it better matches my assessments of the two models from my own experience.

Thanks for that link, I am going to study that thread. I'm sure that I can learn more through his photos.

We already do differentiate what you're talking about here. The Criterion is a "NEW DeLuxe" set rather than a standard NEW. The NEW DeLuxe head is very similar to the short-comb standard NEW, except that the bottom of the guard plate is completely flat across the center, where the short-comb guard plate has some material removed (though less than the long-comb guard plate) which reveals the center rib. The standard NEWs we just call long-comb and short-comb NEWs, so unless there's some other significant variation that I'm missing I'm not sure exactly what's being confused here.

... so, whenever someone writes, "I love the LC more than the SC," I can take that to simply mean that they are referring solely to a NEW? I don't think so. I guess I am revealing my frustration that people often refer only "Short" or "Long" Combs seemingly (to a newbie like me) as if they are all alike. Which, as you point out here, all combs that are physically "short" or "long" are not from the same model.

I am the one who has been confused. And, while I have learned a lot from your replies to my queries, I need to continue to learn more. Thankfully, reading forums like this is a cheaper way to learn than buying 10 different razors on eBay!

 

[mblakele]

Here is a partial, no doubt incomplete, overview of Gillette open comb variations. All but the rightmost Goodwill and the leftmost two are NEW razors, but mostly we only talk about two from the middle: USA short-comb and USA long-comb.

There is relatively little discussion of the NEW razors made in Canada, or those from England, or the NEW Deluxe variants. For one thing, all those exotic NEW variants are fairly rare. Watch ebay or the BST and you will see several garden-variety NEW razors for every exotic.

And sometimes we find subtle variations in unexpected places. The UK NEW razors were made with a dizzying variety of guard plate and cap variations. The USA NEW Deluxe had two different guard plates: for what it might be worth, I find the 15-mm variation more aggressive than the 17-mm. Some folks have called these "short comb" and "long comb" too, but they are not quite the same as the garden-variety SC and LC.