I hope you are commenting on the Presso, I was off watching a number of youtube videos and when compared to a manual lever machine like the La Pavoni one can quickly pull multiple shots while being energy efficient as a bonus. For that tradeoff, I could manage without a frother. As it takes a lot of time and energy to power up the La Pavoni. I was curious what pressure was being applied with this human powered machine, whether it was in the same range as the automatics of today.
Espresso Machine (s)
- Thread starter deruitem
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Yes, that's what I was on about. When I first go "into" espresso I read and read everything I could find which included descriptions of the early lever operated machines. There's a reason we use the term "pull a shot", the very early machines were all operated by pulling down on a lever to apply the pressure rather than a pump or steam pressure. "Automatic" machines got popular pretty quick, but manually pulling the shot is old skool.
I use old good $30 Bialetti Moka Pot. As long as you have fresh roasted and ground coffee, the tool is not that important.
It's not really the real thing...
Sorry but you need very specific temperature and pressure control.
Sorry but you need very specific temperature and pressure control.
I get a little annoyed when I see percolator pots labelled as "espresso makers" because they just plain aren't. I'm not saying you can't make decent coffee in them, it's just not "espresso" coffee is all.
Nespresso isn't espresso but if it's what you like then go with it. If it is better than what you've had from coffee houses then you've haven't been to a truly good coffee house. No Nespresso can outperform a skilled barista (not just a PBTC or button pusher) with fresh beans.
Aeropress does not produce espresso either.
There are plenty of machines in various price brackets. My own machine was $450 when I bought it though that doesn't include the grinder.
It doesn't sound like you specifically want espresso, though, based on your comments above. What you like, what you're willing to spend and the effort you're willing to put in are all important factors in answering your question. Based on your various posts it sounds like you're not too picky about quality and don't want to deal with the hassle and learning curve of using an espresso machine and grinder. You want something convenient. The Nespresso is precisely the type of machine that you're looking for. You could check out Keurigs and similar machines as well.
I own a Silvia but I wouldn't suggest it for someone looking for a machine in the budget range that the OP is asking about. Silvia is widely regarded as overpriced these days. Back in 2002 when I purchased my Silvia it was the machine to get but there are more cost effective options out there these days.
OP just posted that he wanted to stay around the Nespresso's price of $350. Silvia with no grinder is already nearly double that.
Keep in mind that "expensive" is yet another highly subjective word. An expensive grinder for me is one that exceeeds ~$700 retail. Others will have completely different bars for what qualifies as expensive. Never assume that your preferences are universal.
It doesn't hurt to have better performing equipment even if you're starting out. Switching from the Rocky to the Super Jolly made significant improvements in the cup for me. That said, I can also understand being reluctant about investing too much initially.
Moka pots do not make espresso either.
There's nothing wrong or lesser about the machines above that don't produce espresso if you like what they make. They just don't produce espresso.
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What is not really the real thing is the coffee sold in United States. Temperature and pressure control or not, no matter what coffee maker you use, the coffee is ... no comments.
It depends on the quality of coffee. The coffee I make with moka pot is creamy and indistinguishable from what comes of an industrial espresso machine.
My wife is from Sao Paulo, so is my step mother. My siblings have all been multiple times (half siblings). My father in law (also from Sao Paulo) told me that I should open a coffee house after he tasted my espresso. He financially helped kick start my roasting business.
Saying that "coffee sold in the United States" is bad, is a bit of a universalization, don't you think? I mean, have you actually TRIED every single coffee?
On average, in restaurants, you are 100% correct. Again, "on average".
Saying that "coffee sold in the United States" is bad, is a bit of a universalization, don't you think? I mean, have you actually TRIED every single coffee?
On average, in restaurants, you are 100% correct. Again, "on average".
Jasonian is absolutely correct. There are quite a few coffee roasters (probably including Jasonian) in the US who have it figured out and produce absolutely wonderful roasts. Some are SOs (single origin) and some blends. Lots of them are far better than anything you're going to find in the average high end restaurant, or any Charbuck's or (burning) Peat's (and no, I didn't misspell either one of them if you've got any taste buds working). There are two primary requirements for great espresso.
1 - a grinder that will gring the beans finely enough, REPETITIVELY, and
2 - a machine that will REPETITIVELY deliver water at the proper temperature and pressure
Lots of other things can be learned, and rather quickly. But those two requirements are paramount and aren't dependent solely on the operator.
Lastly when your machine goes on the fritz beyond your capability to repair (and it will sooner or later) thank the Lord if it happens in Florida in 95 degree heat and 90 % humidity in late July or early August. You've probably switched over to iced coffee in self preservation mode by then. I have, anyway
.EDIT: Jasonian, if you're roasting for profit or just for fun, PM me with some info. I'm always looking for the BBD on roasts, and am opening a new restaurant with an old friend/pal/partner soon, and a good espresso roast is something we would be looking for.
Ford
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I been gettin into this espresso thing lately, and there is just as much, (if not way more), discourse in the coffee community as there is here about the importance of the variables (materials/equipment/technique) in the equation.
FOR ME, and this is my opinion....I personally have a nespresso machine (D290) and a bialetti moka pot, and this saves me from going to starbucks and I enjoy my coffee at home.
Do i research better equipment with the intent to buy? hell yeah!
Do i need better equipment to significantly enjoy my coffee? maybe, maybe not.
The major advantage to me of my nespresso machine is convenience with obvious costs in other areas. If you are just getting started my suggestion is to buy second hand, I got my nespresso off craigslist for 100 dollars in the box with 40 capsules, so even if i hated it, its not a huge loss. I have seen machines and very high end grinders for very nice prices on various forums and craigslist. If you wanna go grinder/machine route i think the cheapest you could possibly get out (and the route i am going to pursue) is a refurbed baratza preciso grinder and a gaggia classic machine, good setup without selling the farm.....
FOR ME, and this is my opinion....I personally have a nespresso machine (D290) and a bialetti moka pot, and this saves me from going to starbucks and I enjoy my coffee at home.
Do i research better equipment with the intent to buy? hell yeah!
Do i need better equipment to significantly enjoy my coffee? maybe, maybe not.
The major advantage to me of my nespresso machine is convenience with obvious costs in other areas. If you are just getting started my suggestion is to buy second hand, I got my nespresso off craigslist for 100 dollars in the box with 40 capsules, so even if i hated it, its not a huge loss. I have seen machines and very high end grinders for very nice prices on various forums and craigslist. If you wanna go grinder/machine route i think the cheapest you could possibly get out (and the route i am going to pursue) is a refurbed baratza preciso grinder and a gaggia classic machine, good setup without selling the farm.....
No wonder, because coffee in Brazil is generally (99%) ****, as the popular brands are practically burned to coals , so the coffee sold in coffee shops tastes like...burned coals. You can buy selected coffees though (Suplicy for example), but you have to go to a special store which sells them, or try it in specific coffee shops. Brazil was known as supplier of cheap popular grain for a long time, and brazilians are slowly developing their taste for a better cup of coffee. Any espresso sold in US (sorry, percolator coffee doesn´t count a such) will be 100% better than almost any espresso sold in Brazil.
Best coffee in South America comes from Venezuela, but they don´t export it. If you´ll have a chance to try Cafe San Antonio (apparently the cheapest brand), you´ll understand what I mean. With regard to coffee sold in US - no I didn´t try each and every cup of coffee, but in almost 10 years of living in US the only place where coffee was drinkable EVEN in Starbucks was ... Miami.
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PM sent.Jasonian is absolutely correct. There are quite a few coffee roasters (probably including Jasonian) in the US who have it figured out and produce absolutely wonderful roasts. Some are SOs (single origin) and some blends. Lots of them are far better than anything you're going to find in the average high end restaurant, or any Charbuck's or (burning) Peat's (and no, I didn't misspell either one of them if you've got any taste buds working). There are two primary requirements for great espresso.
1 - a grinder that will gring the beans finely enough, REPETITIVELY, and
2 - a machine that will REPETITIVELY deliver water at the proper temperature and pressure
Lots of other things can be learned, and rather quickly. But those two requirements are paramount and aren't dependent solely on the operator.
Lastly when your machine goes on the fritz beyond your capability to repair (and it will sooner or later) thank the Lord if it happens in Florida in 95 degree heat and 90 % humidity in late July or early August. You've probably switched over to iced coffee in self preservation mode by then. I have, anyway
EDIT: Jasonian, if you're roasting for profit or just for fun, PM me with some info. I'm always looking for the BBD on roasts, and am opening a new restaurant with an old friend/pal/partner soon, and a good espresso roast is something we would be looking for.
Ford
What do you mean "drinkable EVEN in Starbucks"? Starbucks is drinkable? Since when?
I don´t know since when, I don´t follow rise and fall of US food chains. What I said is that I was able to find coffee made well above the US average in Miami almost everywhere, even in the Starbucks, where they were making cuban espresso. I can´t tell you if they make cuban espresso in Starbucks in Chattanooga or Buffalo, but in Miami they do.
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I know it's not espresso, not exactly, but I use a stove top moka with espresso coffee. Good stuff. The moka pot was under $20 bucks.
That´s the way to go mate. What I find curious about Americans is that they take any idea ad absurdum. While they count how many bars makes espresso, the rest of the world just drinks it.
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You consider Cuban espresso drinkable? I prefer to have coffee, not sugar. If I want sugar, it's not in my coffee, and I definitely don't want coffee in my sugar.
Not necessarily, telleuno. If making Greek coffee (boiling super fine grounds till you get thick crema) is what you like, then there's nothing wrong with that ... but it doesn't make it espresso.
Greek Coffee != Arab Coffee != Espresso != drip filter != French Press != instant coffee ( != means "does not equal" ) they are all quite different. If you like something in particular that's fine and nobody has any right to criticise you over your preference, but that doesn't change what the type of coffee is.
Greek Coffee != Arab Coffee != Espresso != drip filter != French Press != instant coffee ( != means "does not equal" ) they are all quite different. If you like something in particular that's fine and nobody has any right to criticise you over your preference, but that doesn't change what the type of coffee is.
I was talking about Moka pot and espresso. Nobody makes Greek coffee in a Moka pot, there is a different pot and technique for that and mediterranean (Greek/Turkish/Lebanese) coffee is not an espresso, so I don´t understand why you bring it in. Arab/Gulf coffee is not a coffee as we know it at all. It is made of very lightly roasted beans, with a lot of cardamon and saffron and when cooked for half an hour it is transparent and yellow in color (here is the recipe http://www.aramcoexpats.com/articles/2004/04/qahwa-arabeya-arabic-coffee/ , as I doubt you've ever tried it in your life ). What does it have to do with an espresso discussion?
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