Can jewellers engrave straight razors? or would the steel be too tough?
Engraving.
- Thread starter johnno1970
- Start date
I think Ray at www.GentlemensBest.com uses the latest laser technology to engrave straight razors, amongst other things.
As long as the tool is harder than the steel it's no problem and no razor steel is really that hard relatively speaking.
I can kinda sorta go along with this to a point. But, I have to tell ya that even annealed 154cm stainless tears the heck out of my hardened carbide engraving bits. Whereas I can go for an hour or more on annealed (untreated) carbon steel, I'm lucky to get 10 minutes without breaking a tip on my gravers with some of the stainless steels. That may have something to do with the steel structure more than hardness. You'd have to get a better answer from a metallurgist for the whole skinny. Not a Wiki-ologist, but a real metallurgist ...
I'll have to try regular engraving bits on a heat treated blade to give an update on feasibility. May John C has tried?I can't see any material used for razors being a problem for a laser, though. Thirdeye can weigh in on that one to verify...
Bill, how did they engrave them, back in the day? I figure you would know. By the way, that Winchester I got from you is still going strong. Just took off 2 months of mutton chops a couple hours ago with it. I still haven't had to hone/polish the edge. You do very excellent work.
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Glad the razor is working for you...
I actually don't recall seeing an engraved vintage razor. Most of what you see for design is either stamped before heat treating or acid etched or electroplated. However, for any blades with true engraving that do exist, I'm sure they had to do it as I do... engrave it before it is heat treated and tempered.
I would think in the past unless you were using and diamond tip engraving tool which I would think would be hidiously expensive there would be no way to engrave something after its been heat treated and tempered. but I am sure bill would know much more about this than I do. I am just making an educated guess 
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Most engravings nowadays are done by laser engraver, so the hardness of the steel shouldn't be a problem.
Certainly can't argue with that...
Most of the vintage blades that I've seen and have run across seem to have had the tang stamped, and any decoration on the blade is usually acid etched.
*warning entering WAG territory*
I'm guessing that the different types of imprinting are mainly due not so much with the hardness of the steel, but rather the thickness of the steel where the decoration is to go.
As far as engraving, most of my experience is with nonferris stuff. Nickle, silver, copper, brass, ect. I've just started playing with a chunk or two of steel, and I did some monogramming on a set of stainless pocket knives the last weekend.
*Can* you engrave hardened steel, I'm assuming yes, because guns are engraved all the time. Have I done any, not yet.
I am going to assume from some of the things that I have read that engraving hardened metals is going to be a pain in the butt.
So, I would say that if you want additional stuff done to a vintage or heat treated razor, you might have better luck sending it out to have it lazer engraved.
*However* I'm not sure if the heat of the lazer will jack up the temper of a blade if the engraving is done somewhere besides the spine or tang area.
I'm gonna throw that one to Ray....
so there are my 2 cents worth
again, most to all of it is based on WAGs...
Cheers
*warning entering WAG territory*
I'm guessing that the different types of imprinting are mainly due not so much with the hardness of the steel, but rather the thickness of the steel where the decoration is to go.
As far as engraving, most of my experience is with nonferris stuff. Nickle, silver, copper, brass, ect. I've just started playing with a chunk or two of steel, and I did some monogramming on a set of stainless pocket knives the last weekend.
*Can* you engrave hardened steel, I'm assuming yes, because guns are engraved all the time. Have I done any, not yet.
I am going to assume from some of the things that I have read that engraving hardened metals is going to be a pain in the butt.
So, I would say that if you want additional stuff done to a vintage or heat treated razor, you might have better luck sending it out to have it lazer engraved.
*However* I'm not sure if the heat of the lazer will jack up the temper of a blade if the engraving is done somewhere besides the spine or tang area.
I'm gonna throw that one to Ray....
so there are my 2 cents worth
again, most to all of it is based on WAGs...
Cheers
The heat of laser engraving can change the temper of the steel for sure. The Tang and spine are safe beats as they are thicker. The blade area however can be very trick yet it can be done.
One way to get around this is to do the laser engraving before the blade is hardened. Of coarse this means that you would need to make your own blades as finished/vintage blades are already tempered.
The other option is to use the laser at a lower and mark the steel with a process known as annealing.
There is also a process that I use often which involves the use of a marking liquid that when combined with the laser marks the steel by fusing the two together sorta like silk screening only much much stronger, so strong in fact that it can't be scratched off but could be ground away.
Another way to help prevent over tempering with a laser is to use a heat absorbing wet cloth. This will help to draw the heat out of the blade while working on it.
Lastly, any heavy engraving on steel needs to be done with a pretty powerful industrial laser.
Below is a short clip of the work I did on my thirdeye custom several years ago using a 3500w laser. I used a fairly low power and went over the pattern about 50 times to get the depth I wanted. I could have done it much faster but I wanted to keep the blade cool.
Far below is a picture of the finished blade spine.
Click to view clip
One way to get around this is to do the laser engraving before the blade is hardened. Of coarse this means that you would need to make your own blades as finished/vintage blades are already tempered.
The other option is to use the laser at a lower and mark the steel with a process known as annealing.
There is also a process that I use often which involves the use of a marking liquid that when combined with the laser marks the steel by fusing the two together sorta like silk screening only much much stronger, so strong in fact that it can't be scratched off but could be ground away.
Another way to help prevent over tempering with a laser is to use a heat absorbing wet cloth. This will help to draw the heat out of the blade while working on it.
Lastly, any heavy engraving on steel needs to be done with a pretty powerful industrial laser.
Below is a short clip of the work I did on my thirdeye custom several years ago using a 3500w laser. I used a fairly low power and went over the pattern about 50 times to get the depth I wanted. I could have done it much faster but I wanted to keep the blade cool.
Far below is a picture of the finished blade spine.
Click to view clip
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Outside of the engraved spines, I haven't seen much.
Don't know what vintage this Henckels 970 is, but it has a nice spine.
Don't know what vintage this Henckels 970 is, but it has a nice spine.
I have seen peoples names and initials engraved on old razors, so they must have been able to it back in the day...
Regards,
Neil
Regards,
Neil
