Dulling a blade to start again

[kungfudarren]

Hi guys

I have been trying to get my straight razor shave ready but although I get it sharp its not sharp enough for the hanging hair test. I have tried to shave with it and it tugs pretty hard. I now have a dual whetstone 400/1000 and a 8-10k welsh dragons tongue stone. I can see blade has a a slight frown and has an uneven bevel. I need to know how to dull this blade so that I can start a fresh and learn to hone from scratch. Should I try to even out the frown on the 400 grit before i set a bevel on the 1k?

Thanks
Darren

 

[Wid]

If there is a frown, yes you should straighten the edge out before you continue.

 

[Gamma]

^ What Rick said

No need to dull - just hone. Swarf men's you're cutting. Learn to trust visual the indicators.

 

[rickboone1]

Yep, they said it. I wouldn't be scared to remove some metal on that 400 grit. Get rid of the frown. I wouldn't worry about the bevel being uneven. Spine likely isn't even. Remove frown, go to town. To heck with an HHT. Just shave test it.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I agree. Get rid of the frown first. Don't need to dull it. Just do it. Then set your bevel. Use a sweeping motion to begin with, like the blade is a brush and you are dusting lint off the 400. Gradually stand it more and more upright as you sweep over the stone until it is vertical. When there is no more daylight showing between rock and edge, lay the spine down on the hone. Do circle strokes or whatever on just one side until you feel a burr along the entire edge. However many half laps that took, hone the opposite side the same number and check for burr. Once you have raised a burr along the entire edge on each side in turn, switch to regular alternating laps and give it a dozen or so. Then laps on your 1k until you are sure the burr is completely gone. Ta da. Your bevel is set and no question about it. You should never have to do this again on this razor.

At this point the razor should shave arm hair fairly easy. If not, go on the 1k some more. If so, start your progression.

Well, you don't have much of a progression. It is a pretty big jump from 1k to 8k. You ought to get something for in the middle, like a 4k Norton, maybe. A coticule would bridge that gap nicely for a little more $. Of course I think lapping film is simply the best and very very easy to learn and to get good beginner results with. YMMV of course. You CAN make the jump but it might take a lot of laps on the DT.

Because you are just starting in this honing thing, and the jump is kinda big, this is one place where glassing the edge might be beneficial and instructive. After you verify that the blade shaves arm hair well, run the edge ONCE over a glass beer bottle or similar, just so it barely does NOT shave arm hair. Now go on your DT until once again it DOES shaves arm hair. THis time it should shave really really easy. Now you are getting somewhere. Keep going and watch the honing water. The edge should cut underneath the water on the hone, not simply push it ahead or slide over it. You might also feel the blade begin to glide smoothly over the hone, and maybe then begin to stick, like suction to the stone. At this point, waving the razor 1/4" above your forearm should lop off the tops of a few hairs. Maybe not a lot of them, but at least one per pass.

To get the best finish from that stone, rinse off all slurry. slather it with lather. Hone lightly, reducing pressure gradually, replenishing lather as needed. A couple hundred of these very light laps will get you in the zone. What you are doing with the lather is floating the blade a few microns above the hone, where it can't scratch as deeply into the steel. This has the same effect as going to a finer hone, just takes longer. After this it should treetop quite a few hairs per pass and should barely make a ping. At this point your razor is ready to strop and shave and it should shave beautifully.

Every good edge is based on a good bevel. The bevel IS the edge. All other stages merely polish it. Without a good end to end bevel you simply will not get a good edge, period. Don't even try to move on until you are certain that you have a good bevel along the whole edge.

 

[kungfudarren]

Thanks guys

Slash I have followed your instructions and now have the best edge I've had on it so far! Thanks for taking the time to write such good instructions. Massive thanks

 

[Mo-beffah]

I like when slash is stuck on a ship. Lol. Been reading up on his informative posts. I had finally honed my first razor to a very comfortable shave on lapping film. Took a few attempts on that razor alone. Just last night I tried honing two others and I had a hard time as a W&B has a thick spine and also a relatively pronounced smile (only from the razors I've been using but still nothing too crazy). I had a hard time honing the edge of the entire razor due to this smile. Should I (and also is it possible/recommended) to grind down enough metal and reset the bevel with a 100% straight edge with no smile? I know some people prefer a smile and I would be happy to leave it if I could hone it properly.

 

[Brenngun]

Great question from the OP. I'm about to try my first honing projects so this thread and the responses are very timely.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I like when slash is stuck on a ship. Lol. Been reading up on his informative posts. I had finally honed my first razor to a very comfortable shave on lapping film. Took a few attempts on that razor alone. Just last night I tried honing two others and I had a hard time as a W&B has a thick spine and also a relatively pronounced smile (only from the razors I've been using but still nothing too crazy). I had a hard time honing the edge of the entire razor due to this smile. Should I (and also is it possible/recommended) to grind down enough metal and reset the bevel with a 100% straight edge with no smile? I know some people prefer a smile and I would be happy to leave it if I could hone it properly.

A W&B smiley is quite a nice looking razor and if it is otherwise in pretty good shape, maybe preserve that smile. Let someone who likes to hone smileys have a go at it. Or swap it. If it is a crappy old razor then by all means, straighten it out if you want to, but it will be a pretty big job. I have straightened out a couple of well worn old smilers.

If you want to learn how to hone a smiley, here is your chance. Mainly the technique involves rocking the blade slightly from heel to toe as it travels down the hone. You will likely incorporate a bit of an x stroke, for the famous "rolling X". The rolling or rocking just ensures that the heel and toe get some love. The spine of course stays on the hone just like straight edge honing.

I don't care for smileys myself. A straight edge is so much simpler to hone, to me.

 

[Mo-beffah]

"The famous rolling X" lol. This sounds tricky rolling and rocking yet with the spine still flat on the hone. I remember a video that touched on honing a smile. Think I have to search and revisit that vid. Thanks slash. It is a beautiful razor. I don't want to get rid of it or trade it so I will just have to learn to hone it!

EDIT: Oh man there is tons of videos on the rolling x stroke. Very cool. Think I can do this.

 

[Gamma]

Don't belive the hype - the rolling x-stroke is easy peasy stuff. You just gotta do it a bit and then it comes almost naturally.

Shaving with a smiling blade is most excellent too.

 

[cb91710]

Don't belive the hype - the rolling x-stroke is easy peasy stuff. You just gotta do it a bit and then it comes almost naturally.

Shaving with a smiling blade is most excellent too.

Bingo. Rolling X only becomes other than 2nd nature when you have a hone as wide or wider than the blade. With a narrow hone, it's natural.
IMHO, the only reason to dull an edge, other than to breadknife out a frown, is as a teaching aid when you are new to honing.

All of the work you do on the stones is for naught if the bevel is not set. In much the same way that moving too quickly to higher grits will only result in a finely polished serrated edge.
Dulling the blade on the edge of a glass or bottle gets the blade to the point that when you are popping arm hair, you know that you are on your new bevel, and not the remains of the original bevel.

 

[Thomas Martin]

Might consider to bread knive that blade to get rid of the frown bevor resetting the bevel.

 

[Brooksie967]

Before you breadknife the razor try the above mentioned technique first. Breadknifing is a last resort.

 

[Thomas Martin]

Absolutely. Even the thought of doing something like that to a razor makes the hair on my neck stand up!

 

[Slash McCoy]

Before you breadknife the razor try the above mentioned technique first. Breadknifing is a last resort.

The smiling W&B, naturally. No compelling reason to breadknife a smiling W&B in decent shape. It was made to smile, after all. If that is the razor you mean, then I agree.

The OP has a frownie, though, and breadknifing is an acceptable way of taming a frowner. We are talking about two different razors here.

 

[Brooksie967]

The smiling W&B, naturally. No compelling reason to breadknife a smiling W&B in decent shape. It was made to smile, after all. If that is the razor you mean, then I agree.

The OP has a frownie, though, and breadknifing is an acceptable way of taming a frowner. We are talking about two different razors here.

In my own personal experience, I find it much more frustrating to try and breadknife a razor that is supposed to have a straight edge, not frown. I would lean towards honing through it as setting a new bevel on a flat piece of metal is quite time consuming. I'd prefer using the 'brushing' method over straight up breadknifing any day of the week but the best way is to just hone properly and get the razor doing what you want it to do through that method.

 

[Kentos]

For a beginner dulling and edge on glass might help to assure him that the edge he put on the thing is his own, and not the edge put on there 50 years ago .

I very often dulled new to me razors, but now a sharpie test is probably a better alternative.

 

[kungfudarren]

Hi all,

Have had 3 shaves with this razor now although it needed some quality time with my strop! Most comfortable shave yet, no irritation and it goes through my stubble like a hot knife through butter. Thanks for all the great advice

Darren

 

[Attila]

I know I'm late to this party, but man...what great advice by Slash!!