Does it make a difference what "Animal" the tallow is from?

[Unknownsoldier]

Hi Guys,

After a thought in another thread, can anyone answer this: Does each different animal give different characteristics to tallow? (I know technically Tallow is BEEF IIRC, but run with me here...), I.e. is sheep different or goat or lamb or pork... or people?

Tom

 

[Confilo]

Before being rendered into tallow is called suet and lamb is sometimes used.

 

[Unknownsoldier]

Ahah, so we could be using it already, I was thinking it was all beef suet that was used.

Thanks.

ATB,
Tom

 

[SilkySmooth]

Mitchel's Wool Fat is sheep or lanolin. Tabac is tallow.

 

[Unknownsoldier]

Interesting, but does the animal make a difference to the lather or the quality of the soap, or is it pretty much a muchness?

Tom

 

[40_Caliber]

Mitchel's Wool Fat is sheep or lanolin. Tabac is tallow.

Lanolin is not sheep fat and is not rendered after slaughter. Lanolin is produced by squeezing the shorn wool through rollers.

.40

 

[Obsessed]

Mitchel's Wool Fat is sheep or lanolin. Tabac is tallow.

I think MWF actually contains both, although I don't have the ingredient list in front of me.

 

[40_Caliber]

Ahhhh.... could be. I'm certainly no expert.

I'm hoping that MWF might be able to remain neutral in the reformulation wars because it is lanolin based. Even though it's an animal product it is not cruel to produce wool or lanolin.

 

[Jarmo P]

MWF is lanolin based?
I thought it was tallow based and containes lanolin only as one added ingredient for skin care.

 

[mretzloff]

I believe the best tallow comes from the fat surrounding a cow's kidney. I am sure Krissy will be here shortly to clear this up.

 

[Rudy Vey]

I don't think there too much of a difference in tallow (sheep, beef etc), the fatty acids contained in the tallow (and these are reacting with the lye to soap) are pretty much the same. I believe that beef is the most available tallow and, therefore, the most used.
Now, I could imagine a special soap made from Badger tallow - that would go well with a badger brush....

 

[mdunn]

MWF is lanolin based?
I thought it was tallow based and containes lanolin only as one added ingredient for skin care.

yep, thats why its wool fat.

 

[gollum83]

Lanolin is not sheep fat and is not rendered after slaughter. Lanolin is produced by squeezing the shorn wool through rollers.

.40

Yep, lanolin is quite literally wool fat. Sheep secrete it 24-7 and it gets everywhere if you own sheep. Heck my grandfather had an old barn on his property, which he had to demolish a few years back because a tornado tool the back end of it off. Anyway, although it hadn't had even sheep in it for close to 40 years, it absolutely reeked of sheep until the day it came down because the lanolin from their wool had penetrated the wood.

I believe the best tallow comes from the fat surrounding a cow's kidney. I am sure Krissy will be here shortly to clear this up.

Well tallow can be derived from either sheep or cow, but in either case the best fat is from around the kidneys.

 

[SRock]

I think MWF actually contains both, although I don't have the ingredient list in front of me.

Ingredients Below:

yep, thats why its wool fat.

 

[Dave_D]

Theres this rodent tallow soap Ive been meaning to try, but the idea of using that with a rodent bristle brush seems a bit overboard...

 

[krissy]

i can't comment on the lanolin because I've never used it in soap. However in the ingredient list that Rob posted given the surrounding other ingredients to the lanolin I would guess there is a very small percent of lanolin in it. That doesn't mean it's not enough to be effective but i would guess in the 1-3% mark area, perhaps even less. That is just an educated guess based on my experiences and looking at the recommended usage of the ingredients in front of it that there is more of. Several of the ingredients ahead of it are adding to the fragrance and those are used in small amounts. So is it enough to be effective or enough for the label appeal?


However I can comment on the other types of animal fats. Yes they come from animals and they do help provide a bit of a different type of lather than vegetable based fats, but they all have their own properties. It usually comes from around the kidney area and is a hard waxy substance. I buy mine in it's raw state from my local butcher.

I created this chart to help show you better.

Many soapers look at different benchmarks that apply to each and every oil used for soap. Of course these are all individual numbers and when combined together you get a new set of numbers that represents the whole recipe. Keep in mind they are individual numbers and will look a lot different when combined.

They are hardness, the higher the number the harder the bar of soap.

Cleansing, the higher the number the more of the natural oils that will be stripped off the skin. While this sounds good it doesn't make the skin feel good, so you want a low overall number for this.

Conditioning, this is the amount of oils that are left on the skin to moisturize, so the higher the number the better.

Bubbly, this represents the big bubbly lather that you will get from your soap. Something most people want to see.

Creamy lather, this is a number most don't worry about because if they focus on getting a good bubbly lather the creamy lather will fall into place naturally.

Oleic Acid is something you look at when you want a soap that is really good for older skin.

Linoleic Acid is something you look for when you want a soap that is good for younger skin.


So for example I'll take a bath soap recipe that I'll just make up on the spot. i kept the recipe exactly the same but swapped out the different types of tallow from different animals. Although I did not add lard to the list I did add palm oil.

This particular recipe contains
50% tallow (or the palm)
20% coconut oil
12% castor oil
13% safflower oil
5% canola oil

So you can see by the benchmarks that just by changing out the one oil it will greatly affect the final quality of the soap. Just by using a different type of animal fat.

Does that make a little more sense,?
If not please ask questions,

 

[Leche]

Even though it's an animal product it is not cruel to produce wool or lanolin.

If your going to slaughter the cow might as well make us tallow soap. The whole world isn't going to vegetarians anytime soon.

 

[SRock]

If your going to slaughter the cow might as well make us tallow soap. The whole world isn't going to vegetarians anytime soon.

Exactly! I read somewhere that only roughly 5 in every 1000 people on Earth are vegetarians. I'll see if I can find it for you.

 

[krissy]

Ahhhh.... could be. I'm certainly no expert.

I'm hoping that MWF might be able to remain neutral in the reformulation wars because it is lanolin based. Even though it's an animal product it is not cruel to produce wool or lanolin.

I think you might be going overboard by saying it's "lanolin based," just given what I know about making soap and the oils used. Lanolin would be used as a small additive not as the necessary oils that are used to make up the soap. Also looking at the ingredient label and it's placement and the other ingredients surrounding it you can get an idea of how much has been added.

I did spend some time googling some info and I couldn't find one recipe where it was used in larger amounts. It was used in very small amounts because on thing it does do is accelerate the soaping process and you get soap on a stick rather quickly.

 

[SRock]

I think you might be going overboard by saying it's "lanolin based,"

+1 Not sure how anyone could say MWF is "lanolin based" when the very first ingredient is Tallow???