Does a blade gap and exposure have any significance ?

[Sisyphos]

Of course it does - in the sense of safety razor !
I am relativly new wet shaver. I use both safety razor and shavette just as much. I am beginning to think about parameters of safety razor and shavette. Does it have any significance of blade gap and exposure ? I mean for shavette/straight razor these parameters are indefinite. Regardless of that shavette/straight can be much more mild and comfortable. Everythinh is in the hands of user !

 

[ackvil]

Take a look at the Wiki.

 

[Sisyphos]

Ok. It does not ! Safety razor only obscures what really maters...

 

[Esox]

Of course it does - in the sense of safety razor !
I am relativly new wet shaver. I use both safety razor and shavette just as much. I am beginning to think about parameters of safety razor and shavette. Does it have any significance of blade gap and exposure ? I mean for shavette/straight razor these parameters are indefinite. Regardless of that shavette/straight can be much more mild and comfortable. Everythinh is in the hands of user !

You are in the right place for this kind of information...

You'll need to do some searching around the forum and a lot of reading, but everything you want to know is in here.

I think of my Fatip Grande as a straight razor with a training wheel, a guide. The cap.

I use it at much the same angle as many would a straight. The red line being the level of my skin with the cap pushed into it.

Pressure is never applied to the blades edge, but only to the curved cap so that my skin rises to meet the edge. very much the same idea as with a shavette.

Between the green lines is where I apply all the pressure to reach my preferred angle of blade edge to skin.

Using a razor like that, in essence, creates a reverse blade gap between cap and blade edge, instead of OC/SB and blade edge.

Many SE razors, such as my GEM MMOC, are designed to be used at much the same angle, with the cap flat against the skin.

Personally, I prefer generous blade exposure and minimal blade gap of a rigidly held DE blade, or of a rigid blade itself, an SE blade. That leaves the angle/pressure combination up to me.

Blade gap is more complex because pressure, along with angle of use, dictates how the skin flows through that gap, which in turn, dictates the angle at which the skin is presented to the blades edge. The larger the blade gap, the steeper the angle of skin to edge. The smaller the blade gap, the shallower the angle of skin to edge. Assuming pressure and angle of use, are constant.

 

[BigJ]

Definitely complicated!! Searching the forums will provide a ton of interesting information and discussion.

 

[Joncr]

You are in the right place for this kind of information...

You'll need to do some searching around the forum and a lot of reading, but everything you want to know is in here.

I think of my Fatip Grande as a straight razor with a training wheel, a guide. The cap.

I use it at much the same angle as many would a straight. The red line being the level of my skin with the cap pushed into it.

View attachment 1039670

Pressure is never applied to the blades edge, but only to the curved cap so that my skin rises to meet the edge. very much the same idea as with a shavette.

View attachment 1039674

Between the green lines is where I apply all the pressure to reach my preferred angle of blade edge to skin.

View attachment 1039673

Using a razor like that, in essence, creates a reverse blade gap between cap and blade edge, instead of OC/SB and blade edge.

Many SE razors, such as my GEM MMOC, are designed to be used at much the same angle, with the cap flat against the skin.

View attachment 1039671

Personally, I prefer generous blade exposure and minimal blade gap of a rigidly held DE blade, or of a rigid blade itself, an SE blade. That leaves the angle/pressure combination up to me.

Blade gap is more complex because pressure, along with angle of use, dictates how the skin flows through that gap, which in turn, dictates the angle at which the skin is presented to the blades edge. The larger the blade gap, the steeper the angle of skin to edge. The smaller the blade gap, the shallower the angle of skin to edge. Assuming pressure and angle of use, are constant.

Great explanation how a DE can be angled to give more or less blade feel and level of aggression. Clearly a Feather AS D2 has only a small range, from mild to very mild, but more aggressive razors are definitely user adjustable. Personally I prefer razors which allow me to use a neutral angle, cap and guard equally against the skin, and get a close irritation and blood free shave. But different (shaving) strokes for different folks.

 

[Esox]

Great explanation how a DE can be angled to give more or less blade feel and level of aggression. Clearly a Feather AS D2 has only a small range, from mild to very mild, but more aggressive razors are definitely user adjustable. Personally I prefer razors which allow me to use a neutral angle, cap and guard equally against the skin, and get a close irritation and blood free shave. But different (shaving) strokes for different folks.

Yep, to each their own.

I believe a neutral angle makes the most sense and is the easiest to use, but only the person holding the razor can decide that.

 

[Brian C.]

Great discussion and I thoroughly understand the concepts presented, but @ackvil and @Esox , what about when you throw slants in the mix? How does the torque of the blade change the above definitions and defined parameters?

 

[Chadjaja]

The gap on the Futur/qshave is scary even at low settings despite the mildness. ..

 

[Esox]

Great discussion and I thoroughly understand the concepts presented, but @ackvil and @Esox , what about when you throw slants in the mix? How does the torque of the blade change the above definitions and defined parameters?

I havent used a slant so I hesitate to say, but I would think blade exposure and blade gap would have the same or very similar effects. Torquing the very thin and flexible DE blades would help increase their rigidity, but the part I'm most curious about is the cutting action of the blade when it is torqued.

As I understand it, there are different designs of slant razor heads and they dont all torque the blade in the same way. @efsk I'm sure could speak to that far better than myself.

 

[Brian C.]

I havent used a slant so I hesitate to say, but I would think blade exposure and blade gap would have the same or very similar effects. Torquing the very thin and flexible DE blades would help increase their rigidity, but the part I'm most curious about is the cutting action of the blade when it is torqued.

As I understand it, there are different designs of slant razor heads and they dont all torque the blade in the same way. @efsk I'm sure could speak to that far better than myself.

I currently shave with a Merkur 37c and plan to purchase the Parker semi-slant. Since trying a slant, I have become a dedicated slant shaver. I have 2 straight bar DE's as well and just find the slants so much better. They are more efficient and much smoother than either my mild or mid-aggressive SB's. The SB's will be leaving my den next year.

I would venture to guess that blade exposure would be less important due to the torquing action and thereby increasing the rigidity as you surmised.

Blade gap may be a completely different story though because, as you noted, not all torsion/torque slants are equal. It may be even more critical on a slant than a SB.

By comparison, I also tried the PAA Alpha elliptical slant and did not care for it at all. I definitely prefer the torqued slants.

Again, a very interesting topic.

 

[Esox]

I currently shave with a Merkur 37c and plan to purchase the Parker semi-slant. Since trying a slant, I have become a dedicated slant shaver. I have 2 straight bar DE's as well and just find the slants so much better. They are more efficient and much smoother than either my mild or mid-aggressive SB's. The SB's will be leaving my den next year.

I would venture to guess that blade exposure would be less important due to the torquing action and thereby increasing the rigidity as you surmised.

Blade gap may be a completely different story though because, as you noted, not all torsion/torque slants are equal. It may be even more critical on a slant than a SB.

By comparison, I also tried the PAA Alpha elliptical slant and did not care for it at all. I definitely prefer the torqued slants.

Again, a very interesting topic.

If Fatip ever bring their slant to market I'll likely try one but SE is the future for me.

 

[Schnitzel52]

Tell us why you like the SE so much. Thanks

 

[Navitimer]

Blade gap may be a completely different story though because, as you noted, not all torsion/torque slants are equal. It may be even more critical on a slant than a SB.

Blade gap should have no influence on blade rigidity, as the blade is held the same way with different blade gaps. Additionally, the force is directed upwards, so the cap will stabilize the blade even more.
The thing slants do better is that instead of being like a cleaver, they are like a knife (not chopping but actually cutting)

 

[Brian C.]

Blade gap should have no influence on blade rigidity, as the blade is held the same way with different blade gaps. Additionally, the force is directed upwards, so the cap will stabilize the blade even more.
The thing slants do better is that instead of being like a cleaver, they are like a knife (not chopping but actually cutting)

Very true and I agree with this. My question was more to the importance of blade gap concerning a slant as opposed to a straight bar. Blade gap would be harder to measure and discern on a torqued blade compared to a straight blade.

Blade exposure would affect rigidity as a razor with a lot of blade exposure would cause more “chatter” from the blade.

In the end, as to the OP’s question after further thought, I believe exposure would matter more than gap across the board. Blade gap would only matter as to the aggressiveness of the razor.


AoM; B.O.S.S.;Knight of the Veg Table;MFR2019

 

[Esox]

Tell us why you like the SE so much. Thanks

SE blades are more than twice as thick as DE blades. That increased rigidity, stiffness of the blade, contributes a lot to my shaves.

Even with my Fatip Grande which is a very rigid design, because DE blades are so thin and flexible, the very edge of the blade can flex if I use a steep angle. If I shave slowly enough I can even hear a tiny "ping" as the blade cuts a single hair and springs back into shape. That leads to weepers.

I can use my GEM MMOC at any angle and that doesnt happen. Not even over my hardest to shave areas and I generally use my MMOC at a steeper angle. Angle of use matters much less as far as the blade is concerned. Pressure applied is what matters most. Use too much pressure and it will not only shave, it will peel skin.

Even if that doesnt happen so noticeably though, I think the thin and flexible DE blades can flex minutely and at a microscopic level, damage the skin. That damage accumulates over time. I say that because in my use of SE razors, long term, my skin improves. Its most noticeable when I'm use to using a DE, as I am now. Then when I switch back to SE my shaves are better and I ask myself why I did because the difference is now that pronounced.

Every time I use it I ask myself why I use anything else.

I just used my Bullet Tip again for shave #3 on a PTFE after using DE's my last several shaves. Every time I use a GEM I ask myself why I still use DE's.

I'm not the only one to notice that from switching to SE from DE and back again either and I admit I was skeptical but, at least in my own case, its proven true.

A more stable blade gives a more comfortable and smoother shave, assuming technique is where it needs to be.

 

[Schnitzel52]

That makes sense.
Thanks!

 

[Esox]

The thing slants do better is that instead of being like a cleaver, they are like a knife (not chopping but actually cutting)

Yep. Guillotines didnt use straight blades. I'm sure theres a reason for that.



Thats what I'm most curious about and as I said, not all slant razors are created equally in that regard.

Blade gap would be harder to measure and discern on a torqued blade compared to a straight blade.

I'm not sure. The blades edge and the SB/OC would still form straight linear lines, just on an angle. Its reasonable to assume that the space between the blades edge and the SB/OC would remain constant across its length, but not having a good look at any slants, I cant really say.

Interesting train of thought though...

That makes sense.
Thanks!

You're welcome!

 

[Brian C.]

@Esox, I originally tried a slant after using the “Gillette slide” technique and getting better, close, more comfortable shaves doing that. The main issue I had was that technique causes you to hold the razor in an odd and unnatural way. Slants operates in the same way as any other razor, so they are more comfortable to use and, IMO, provide better shaves.


AoM; B.O.S.S.;Knight of the Veg Table;MFR2019

 

[Esox]

@Esox, I originally tried a slant after using the “Gillette slide” technique and getting better, close, more comfortable shaves doing that. The main issue I had was that technique causes you to hold the razor in an odd and unnatural way. Slants operates in the same way as any other razor, so they are more comfortable to use and, IMO, provide better shaves.


AoM; B.O.S.S.;Knight of the Veg Table;MFR2019

That makes perfect sense! Almost like they have the Gillette Slide built right into them.

I often do the Gillette Side and I'm unaware of it, only noticing when watching in the mirror. Maybe theres a reason I do that unconsciously as often as I do.