Derby Usta = Derby Extra per Azmusebat Corp. Web Site

[Lane101]

Was scrolling through the Azmusebat Corporate web site and saw that the Derby Usta blades are shown as Derby Extra blades on this site. Azmusebat is the name of the company that makes Derby blades. In their catalog Derby Extra blades are positioned as professional barber products, not as consumer products. In Turkish "usta" translates into "expert" in english. Looks like for at least their domestic market they have relabeled Derby Extra blades as Derby Usta meaning they are the same blade.

The english catalog available via the corporate web site, that has not been changed for the past couple of years, only shows the Derby Extra and Derby Premium DE blades in addition to their many cartridge razors and shaving creams. Neither the web site or catalog show any shaving soaps (both sticks and bowls) making me wonder if those are still in production.

Many B&Br's have posted that the only Derby blade they like are the Usta. Possibly they had older pre-2016 0.1mm Derby Extra blades as a basis of comparison to newer 0.09mm production, that have performed better, under the Usta label.

Link below. Note that you need to select the English (EN) translation at the top. In the Turkish version the blades are labeled Derby Usta Extra further confirming these are the same blades.

TIRAŞ BIÇAKLARI | ..:: AZMÜSEBAT ::..

www.azmusebat.com.tr

 

[d_e]

Up close they look different:

The Eye Test. The Tortoise (Derby Extra) VS the Hare (Gillette Nacet)

 

[Lane101]

Up close they look different:

The Eye Test. The Tortoise (Derby Extra) VS the Hare (Gillette Nacet)

Thanks, recall seeing this a while back. While the older pre-2016 Derby blades are clearly of poorer quality with what looks to me like just two bevel angles the other three all have three bevel angles and it's hard to tell from single examples if the differences are material to performance or just normal production variations. All three look to have reasonable quality edges at 200x. Would love to see higher magnification side views of the cutting edges as the actual edge angle matters the most to blade sharpness and longevity. Narrower angle = sharper blade though due to micro chipping wear, per a recent MIT analysis, this may also result in a shorter blade life. For example Feathers are the sharpest blades (with narrowest blade edge angle per one analysis) yet many B&Bers only realize 1 or 2 good shaves per blade.

It's also possible that Derby changed how it hones its blades again in addition to positioning the Usta blades as the same as its Extra blades. The Turkish "yeni bileme teknolojisi" on the Usta packaging translates to "new sharpening technology" versus the "new blade technology" on the blue boxes of 200 post-2016 production Derby Extra blades I purchased in 2018 (first DE blade I purchased). Derby may also have enhanced the coatings on the blades post 2016 as the boxes note the blades are coated with chromium, ceramic,platinum, tungsten and polymer. Recall some 2014 Scanning Electron Microscope analysis posted on B&B with spectroscopy analysis that did not detect any platinum in the Derby Extra blade analyzed.

It's always a challenge to understand the features of DE blades as most manufacturers, with the exception of Dorco for the Asian market, don't tout them and the related benefits as most of their marketing goes into higher margin cartridges and shaving systems. What matters, given YMMV, is how the blades work for you. While my Astra and Dorco blades last longer I continue to realize excellent shaves from the Derby Extras in my inventory.

 

[Babou]

Derby Usta = Derby Extra blue ? Same sharpness ?

 

[fast shaver]

The Derby USTA blades are rough & tuggy for me.
The Derby Premium blades are excellent & give me smooth close shaves.

 

[ivan_101]

No, they are not the same blade. I can assure you. I used the new Derby Extra (bought in 2020) blue label - so-so. I also have the older Derby Extra green label - bought around 2010 - they are pretty bad in my book. And the Usta which is a relatively new model. All 3 shave differently. The Usta is the sharpest and gives me the most effortless and closest shave of all their models. (Yes, I have tried the Premium also)

Note that unlike the Extra and the Premium models Usta doesn't state neither on the dispenser, nor on the cardboard box those 4 coatings. I think that is why they are the sharpest of all.

 

[Steelerfan]

I often wondered how many blades are the same but with different packaging or names. I asked if this was true for the many Lord blades out there. About blades feeling different, I have tried five German Wilkinson Sword blades, each one of them felt different to me from the other. One was a dud to one that was fantastic. I have tried blades that were consistent from blade to blade but other were the results of poor QC.

So when it comes to the Derby Extra blade, it has not been my experience that they were dull or tuggy (most likely I am using the post 2016 blades). They are plenty sharp. But with them, I have to be more careful or I will nick myself.

 

[Lane101]

Derby Usta = Derby Extra blue ? Same sharpness ?

Depends on whether or not Derby changed the Derby Extra blade manufacturing at the same time it began using the Derby Usta name for Derby Extra for the Turkish domestic market and if so the timing of the production of blades still sold by on-line retailers. As noted above the Derby Usta packaging no longer lists all the blade coatings mentioned on the Derby Extra Blue packaging.

 

[edw]

I often wondered how many blades are the same but with different packaging or names. I asked if this was true for the many Lord blades out there. About blades feeling different, I have tried five German Wilkinson Sword blades, each one of them felt different to me from the other. One was a dud to one that was fantastic. I have tried blades that were consistent from blade to blade but other were the results of poor QC.

So when it comes to the Derby Extra blade, it has not been my experience that they were dull or tuggy (most likely I am using the post 2016 blades). They are plenty sharp. But with them, I have to be more careful or I will nick myself.

LORD and all the brands (Lord, Racer, Shark, Silver Star, Big Ben, ASCO, Crown, OK, Rainbow and some rebranded and sold here in Brazil as Lamix, Fiat Lux, SQ, Master Barba) they print in the labels are only 3 kinds:

PLATINUM
STAINLESS
CHROME

With different "clothes". I tried them all.

To my preference all Platinum and Stainless are excellent. The Chromes and me, we don't agree that much most of times. But still useful if paired with right razor.


Regarding Derby, USTA, Extra and Premium at least to me they fell like three quite different types of blades.

 

[Lane101]

No, they are not the same blade. I can assure you. I used the new Derby Extra (bought in 2020) blue label - so-so. I also have the older Derby Extra green label - bought around 2010 - they are pretty bad in my book. And the Usta which is a relatively new model. All 3 shave differently. The Usta is the sharpest and gives me the most effortless and closest shave of all their models. (Yes, I have tried the Premium also)

Note that unlike the Extra and the Premium models Usta doesn't state neither on the dispenser, nor on the cardboard box those 4 coatings. I think that is why they are the sharpest of all.

Hi Ivan, Quite possible if Derby changed how it manufactures it's blades in conjunction with use of the Derby Usta brand for the domestic Turkish market. Key point of my original post is that per the Azmusebat web site Derby Usta and Derby Extra are the same thing. Given how long inventory dwells in the international DE supply chain the labeled Derby Extra blades many are still buying could be from before any latest changes.

Also lots of YMMV for Derby blades given the diverse experiences detailed in this and many other B&B threads. For me the Derby Extra blades (both blue and post 2016 green) provide excellent shaves though the don't last as long as my Astra SP and Dorco blades.

P.S. Regarding your 2010 blades other B&Bers have posted analysis of Derby blades to confirm that they are indeed physically different from the post-2016 production. 0.1mm versus 0.09mm thickness and measured diffences in sharpness. Have not seen anything similar for Derby Premium and Usta blades versus others. Link to older post on Derby Extra vs. Premium blades below.

What Are the Differences Between Derby Extra and Premium DE Blades?

Has anyone ever been in direct contact with Derby regarding what makes the Premium DE blades superior to the Derby Extras? In the Derby English language catalog (link below) the only difference listed is the use of Swedish steel. Otherwise the copy for both is identical with the statement...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[ivan_101]

Hi Ivan, Quite possible if Derby changed how it manufactures it's blades in conjunction with use of the Derby Usta brand for the domestic Turkish market. Key point of my original post is that per the Azmusebat web site Derby Usta and Derby Extra are the same thing. Given how long inventory dwells in the international DE supply chain the labeled Derby Extra blades many are still buying could be from before any latest changes.

Also lots of YMMV for Derby blades given the diverse experiences detailed in this and many other B&B threads. For me the Derby Extra blades (both blue and post 2016 green) provide excellent shaves though the don't last as long as my Astra SP and Dorco blades.

P.S. Regarding your 2010 blades other B&Bers have posted analysis of Derby blades to confirm that they are indeed physically different from the post-2016 production. 0.1mm versus 0.09mm thickness and measured diffences in sharpness. Have not seen anything similar for Derby Premium and Usta blades versus others. Link to older post on Derby Extra vs. Premium blades below.

What Are the Differences Between Derby Extra and Premium DE Blades?

Has anyone ever been in direct contact with Derby regarding what makes the Premium DE blades superior to the Derby Extras? In the Derby English language catalog (link below) the only difference listed is the use of Swedish steel. Otherwise the copy for both is identical with the statement...

www.badgerandblade.com

So did you actually try a Derby Usta blade (and compare it to new stock Extra)? Or you just saw that on their site they wrote Extra, but put the photo of Usta?
Everything I wrote in my post is from real experience. And the blue Extra blade I tried is the new one which is claimed to be the thinner. There are no old blue Extras. The blues appeared only in the last years.

 

[Lane101]

So did you actually try a Derby Usta blade (and compare it to new stock Extra)? Or you just saw that on their site they wrote Extra, but put the photo of Usta?
Everything I wrote in my post is from real experience. And the blue Extra blade I tried is the new one which is claimed to be the thinner. There are no old blue Extras. The blues appeared only in the last years.

Hi Ivan_101,

No need to try an Usta as the purpose of the original post was to share that Azmusebat states the Usta and Extra blades it is currently selling are the same. Fully respect that for you, per your beard characteristics, equipment and shaving technique, that the Usta blades recently acquired work better than any of your Derby Extra or Premium labeled stock. Respect the same for Fast Shaver above who finds the Usta blades rough and tuggy while and the Derby Premium blades are excellent. For me I achieve excellent shaves from my post 2016 Derby green and blue box blades purchased back in 2018/2019. All three great potential examples of YMMV. On other posts some B&Bers have found almost no difference in the shave quality delivered by dozens of different blades beyond longevity (# shaves/blade).

Given how pervasive YMMV is among us at B&B the only way to confirm true differences between blades is through actual blade measurement, some statistical analysis of performance from a large number of shavers or manufacturer communications/patents. For now we only have the first two to confirm that there are material differences between the pre and post 2016 Derby Extra blades thanks to the work of other B&Bers that confirm the post 2016 blades are materially better than those made earlier. Not aware of anything similar for Derby Premium or the newer Derby Usta blades beyond the 200x microscopy analysis shared by d_e above that is not necessarily conclusive beyond further confirming that pre-2016 blades are rougher than the others.

Note that some analysis or manufacturer communication on the topic would be nice as I suspect there is a good chance that the Usta blades may be coated differently than the post 2016 Derby Extra blades we've been purchasing since the related Derby Extra copy on coatings is not on the Usta packaging. It's also possible they are honed differently based on the "new sharpening technology" tag line on the Usta packaging. It's also possible that nothing changed other than the name and packaging as Derby's pdf catalog (unchanged the past couple of years) includes copy regarding new cathedral honing technique that was consistent with world standards. The "new sharpening technology" may be the same thing Derby announced in its catalog two years ago. Barring a communication from the manufacturer or other physical analysis we do not know for sure.

 

[ivan_101]

Hi Ivan_101,

No need to try an Usta as the purpose of the original post was to share that Azmusebat states the Usta and Extra blades it is currently selling are the same. Fully respect that for you, per your beard characteristics, equipment and shaving technique, that the Usta blades recently acquired work better than any of your Derby Extra or Premium labeled stock. Respect the same for Fast Shaver above who finds the Usta blades rough and tuggy while and the Derby Premium blades are excellent. For me I achieve excellent shaves from my post 2016 Derby green and blue box blades purchased back in 2018/2019. All three great potential examples of YMMV. On other posts some B&Bers have found almost no difference in the shave quality delivered by dozens of different blades beyond longevity (# shaves/blade).

Given how pervasive YMMV is among us at B&B the only way to confirm true differences between blades is through actual blade measurement, some statistical analysis of performance from a large number of shavers or manufacturer communications/patents. For now we only have the first two to confirm that there are material differences between the pre and post 2016 Derby Extra blades thanks to the work of other B&Bers that confirm the post 2016 blades are materially better than those made earlier. Not aware of anything similar for Derby Premium or the newer Derby Usta blades beyond the 200x microscopy analysis shared by d_e above that is not necessarily conclusive beyond further confirming that pre-2016 blades are rougher than the others.

Note that some analysis or manufacturer communication on the topic would be nice as I suspect there is a good chance that the Usta blades may be coated differently than the post 2016 Derby Extra blades we've been purchasing since the related Derby Extra copy on coatings is not on the Usta packaging. It's also possible they are honed differently based on the "new sharpening technology" tag line on the Usta packaging. It's also possible that nothing changed other than the name and packaging as Derby's pdf catalog (unchanged the past couple of years) includes copy regarding new cathedral honing technique that was consistent with world standards. The "new sharpening technology" may be the same thing Derby announced in its catalog two years ago. Barring a communication from the manufacturer or other physical analysis we do not know for sure.

I only see a photo of Usta blades that states Derby Extra. I wouldn't take that as a statement from the company that they are the same blade. Did it occur to you that someone who put that photo there might have mixed up the photos as the Usta and the 100-pack Extra are both green?

As for the "company communication" thing. I believe a couple of years ago someone wrote to Bic an email and they claimed Bic Chrome Platinum and Bic Astor are the same blade, which they aren't. There are even magnification photos here on the forum that show different bevels on them. But those who attend to email boxes are not the ones who actually make the blades, they are just people who sit behind a desk.

You are only making conjectures based on a mismatched photo. I rest my case.

 

[Lane101]

Note that you need to select the English (EN) translation at the top. In the Turkish version the blades are labeled Derby Usta Extra further confirming these are the same blades.I only see a photo of Usta blades that states Derby Extra. I wouldn't take that as a statement from the company that they are the same blade. Did it occur to you that someone who put that photo there might have mixed up the photos as the Usta and the 100-pack Extra are both green?

As for the "company communication" thing. I believe a couple of years ago someone wrote to Bic an email and they claimed Bic Chrome Platinum and Bic Astor are the same blade, which they aren't. There are even magnification photos here on the forum that show different bevels on them. But those who attend to email boxes are not the ones who actually make the blades, they are just people who sit behind a desk.

You are only making conjectures based on a mismatched photo. I rest my case.

Hi Ivan_101,

No conjecture here and it is unlikely that this is a mistake for the following reasons:

• Your final statement is based on no actual evidence beyond personal conjecture. The original post in this thread articulates what Derby is actually showing on its web site.
• Per my original post above the positioning of Derby Usta as Extra blades is shown in both the Turkish and English versions. "Note that you need to select the English (EN) translation at the top. In the Turkish version the blades are labeled Derby Usta Extra further confirming these are the same blades." Using new copy that brands the Ustas as Extra blades is a purposeful communication.
• If the Usta blades were indeed a different blade from the Extra's we'd likely see a separate Extra listing on the web site. There is none. Note the premiums are also not listed so it's possible that going forward the Derby DE assortment has been consolidated into just the Usta/Extra line.

Other than the above we don't know exactly what Derby is doing here. What we see may be the result of different assortment offerings for domestic Turkish and international markets. It could be they really have consolidated all future DE production to the Usta/Extra brand. As part of this consolidation Derby may have changed the hone and coatings of the Usta/Extra blades. If the latter we will still see Extra Premium, Green and Blue blades for years because of all the older inventory floating around.

We saw something similar with Dorco's DE blades. Their Stainless blades were offered under two SKU numbers, ST301 in a plastic tuck and ST300 in a cardboard tuck. Lots of posts articulating how one of these was better than the other. We confirmed that in reality there was no difference between the blades beyond the packaging. Much of the confusion stemmed from comparisons between older Korean and newer Vietnamese production that are very different. Later saw something similar with Dorco's premium Prime DE blades under the SKU numbers STP301 and STP300 that offer the same Prime blade in plastic or cardboard tucks. In it's latest catalog it appears that Dorco is consolidating its DE assortment for these blades into just the cardboard tucks under the ST300 and STP300 SKU numbers. Extensive posts on all of this in B&B. Note that Dorco is my favorite blade and I own all newer production of all four of these SKUs. While my personal experience with these blades is consistent with the above I will not use that as evidence given YMMV.

I'm glad that the Derby Ustas work so well for you Ivan. Let's let this topic rest for now and hopefully more information such as an updated international catalog will come out from Derby to confirm exactly what the Usta's represent in their assortment.

 

[d_e]

@Lane101 PM an address and I'll ship you a couple samples of my Usta and Extra, both purchased this year. They are clearly not the same blade, but you should evaluate them for yourself. LMK.

 

[Lane101]

@Lane101 PM an address and I'll ship you a couple samples of my Usta and Extra, both purchased this year. They are clearly not the same blade, but you should evaluate them for yourself. LMK.

Thank you for the generous offer. I already have plenty of the blue box Derby Extra blades and won't likely notice a difference. All four of my current blades (Derby Extra, Astra SP and Dorco Stainless and Prime) shave the same for me with the exception of the number of shaves (the most from Dorco on average) from each brand and a slightly rougher first Dorco Prime shave from its extra coating. Have found that, for me, most differences in shave quality come from changes in technique such as wetter lather and use of a mild vs. moderately aggressive razor.

 

[Steelerfan]

LORD and all the brands (Lord, Racer, Shark, Silver Star, Big Ben, ASCO, Crown, OK, Rainbow and some rebranded and sold here in Brazil as Lamix, Fiat Lux, SQ, Master Barba) they print in the labels are only 3 kinds:

PLATINUM
STAINLESS
CHROME

With different "clothes". I tried them all.

To my preference all Platinum and Stainless are excellent. The Chromes and me, we don't agree that much most of times. But still useful if paired with right razor.


Regarding Derby, USTA, Extra and Premium at least to me they fell like three quite different types of blades.

With the Lord products, I too find that the stainless and the platinum blade work well but not so the chrome. I have only tried Derby Extra and Premium. Both of the Derby's worked well for me. I have to take care when I use the Extra though.

Just a question: I really liked the Gillette Platinum Plus blades (Brazil) that were sold here in the US. They were expensive around $6 for three blades, bu they were some of my favorite blades. I am wondering if they are totally gone or sold under a new name?

 

[edw]

With the Lord products, I too find that the stainless and the platinum blade work well but not so the chrome. I have only tried Derby Extra and Premium. Both of the Derby's worked well for me. I have to take care when I use the Extra though.

Just a question: I really liked the Gillette Platinum Plus blades (Brazil) that were sold here in the US. They were expensive around $6 for three blades, bu they were some of my favorite blades. I am wondering if they are totally gone or sold under a new name?

Gillette Platinum plus from Brazil are gone.
Only stainless Wilkinson Sword by Procter and Gamble are produced and sold here nowadays. Just a "average" blade. Not among the best.

 

[Lane101]

Quick update here. Per the latest Derby catalog (link to Azmusebat corporate site below) it appears that the Derby Usta blades are the replacement for the Derby Extra and Premium blades that are no longer listed. They are touted as being made with a new sharpening technology that includes double polishing.

The listing of these blades, elsewhere on the site, as Derby Usta Extra may be designed to facilitate the transition from Derby Extra to Derby Usta.

TIRAŞ BIÇAKLARI | ..:: AZMÜSEBAT ::..

www.azmusebat.com.tr

 

[ivan_101]

Quick update here. Per the latest Derby catalog (link to Azmusebat corporate site below) it appears that the Derby Usta blades are the replacement for the Derby Extra and Premium blades that are no longer listed. They are touted as being made with a new sharpening technology that includes double polishing.

The listing of these blades, elsewhere on the site, as Derby Usta Extra may be designed to facilitate the transition from Derby Extra to Derby Usta.

TIRAŞ BIÇAKLARI | ..:: AZMÜSEBAT ::..

www.azmusebat.com.tr

Oh come on, now!
The listing says "Derby Extra Razor" and there is a photo of Derby Usta razor blades. No "Derby Usta Extra" on the site or in the catalogue.