DE sharpness compared to straights
- Thread starter javast
- Start date
The straight razor edges I’m producing are smooth and sharp, but perhaps less sharp than a DE blade. I’m referring to the forgiving quality of my edges when missteps occur, technique being less than on point. Times when I thought I might have cut myself and didn’t, or my edge just moves over a skin anomaly and leaves me unscathed. Whereas the thin machined DE blade might be less forgiving, perhaps sharper and cause injury? That’s why I never took to the AC blades in a shavette. For the way I like to shave, single pass, a straight razor is plenty sharp and very comfortable.
Please explain the physics here.
And DE blades don't come in near wedge - or at least I haven't been able to find any 
.
.
Those Feather blades are sharp, I do enjoy using them, they are entirely different from conventional blades or straight razors all the same, they have three grinding angles and they also have a platinum alloy coating and a final resin coating for low friction, I have used the Feather Super blades they are great, I can get about 8 quality shaves from one blade.
I’m not prone to stunt shaving but I was overdue for a DE shave anyway. Loaded a Feather blade into my 60’s Super Speed and had at it! A fine shave and yes they are sharp. Single pass results were similar, I give the edge to my straight razors, but will take into account rusty DE technique. A rare second pass finished things off nicely. Comfortable, no drama. Whatever this all means, I’m not sure. I just prefer straight razors, that I am sure.
Yeah. I also prefer straight razors and wonder why it took me so long to start using one. I only use something else when I haven't got time for stropping and oiling. "Hurry up! We'll be late! Shave later." and "Shut up woman! I'll still be ready long before you." You know, stuff like that.
It still doesn't exactly explain why a de blade would be sharper then a straight razor.
A human hair is not thick enough for the thickness of the de blade to make a difference.
Most de blades have a quite obtuse bevel angle. So, a straight razor with a bevel angle of 16 deg will have a smaller width behind the edge compared to some de blades at a more obtuse bevel angle.
Not to mention, that source links to the science of sharp blog which I alluded to above which has SEM images showing a stropped straight compared to a Feather clearly showing both a narrower apex and less width behind the edge for the straight. From a purely geometric perspective, the straight is sharper. Now, coatings play a huge role in the way a DE actually cuts, I believe that when Gillette was researching coatings they discovered that users perceived certain coatings to cut better even with blades that weren't as sharp, geometrically speaking.
But really, it's an apples to oranges comparison. Both in design and in use. Either will take hair off your face, though.
A small change in the friction coefficient from the coating will make a big difference.
You can play with the numbers and see. In this example the bevel angle is similar but the friction is different.
My view is that SE/DE blades are not inherently sharper, but the razor geometry tends to make them much more efficient. On the rare occasion I need to use my Gem MMOC it is almost depressing how easy it is to shave with. I think this is largely due to the razor head which stretches the skin just in front of the blade. On most of the face you can replicate that with an SR by manual stretching but in some parts of the face it is pretty hard to achieve the same results. I mean, you could achieve the same results once, but after that you wouldn't have enough fingers to repeat the feat.
It’s a difficult subject the idea of sharpness.
My straights when finished well, give a really beautiful close, clean mild feeling shave.
Absolute smoothness to the touch, there’s nothing like it.
I can’t seem to get a DE shave without weepers and tiny bits of blood everywhere.
But I’m out of practice.
So which is sharper?
Which shaves hair better in my hands?
Yes straights are lovingly hand honed by experienced honers using good quality steels and stones.
Can a machine stamped bit of throwaway steel be expected to compare?
Can that cheap steel ever get to the level of good quality fine grained steel?
Who knows?
I don’t.
My straights when finished well, give a really beautiful close, clean mild feeling shave.
Absolute smoothness to the touch, there’s nothing like it.
I can’t seem to get a DE shave without weepers and tiny bits of blood everywhere.
But I’m out of practice.
So which is sharper?
Which shaves hair better in my hands?
Yes straights are lovingly hand honed by experienced honers using good quality steels and stones.
Can a machine stamped bit of throwaway steel be expected to compare?
Can that cheap steel ever get to the level of good quality fine grained steel?
Who knows?
I don’t.
I would say yes to both these questions.
I personally don't see a need to, but that is a different question.
This is a feather de blade with the geometry of a straight razor overlaid.
The Feather bevel angle is at least 24 deg.
So, it's less sharp then the straight razor, but keener and the coating also helps.
Honing with edge leading strokes will compromise the keenness (apex radius/width) of a straight razor. However, if sub-micron pastes are used ( in lue of finer stones) on a suitable substrate, you can improve the keenness at a small compromise to the sharpness.
If done correctly you should be able to create a straight razor edge that is as sharp and keen as a feather de blade even if you don't have a finer stone then 8-12k if you use pastes, and your straight razor has an acute enough bevel angle and good steel.
Ref. The Internet
Just grow a beard 5d.
One side shave w your "best" straight and the other side w a Feather "shavette" using a Feather Professional blade....., try to feel the ease of cutting.......that is the amount of pressure you apply for it to cut......and probably, just probably then: you will find your answer.....
I am not talking which gives the best shave.....on your hands.....the original question was: which is sharper.....
One side shave w your "best" straight and the other side w a Feather "shavette" using a Feather Professional blade....., try to feel the ease of cutting.......that is the amount of pressure you apply for it to cut......and probably, just probably then: you will find your answer.....
I am not talking which gives the best shave.....on your hands.....the original question was: which is sharper.....
If you go by the “having an edge or point that is able to cut or pierce something” (Oxford Dictionary) definition of “sharp”, safety razor blades are sharper than straight razors just by virtue of the shallower angle of the cutting edge. I do not believe that straight shavers can hone the cutting edge to as shallow an angle as industrially manufactured razor blades.
But “sharpness” alone is not the only factor for a close and comfortable shave and I believe that with the right skillset and experience a straight razor has an advantage in closeness and possibly comfort, as the razor’s edge glides over the skin while in most safety razors a negative blade exposure has the cutting edge slightly recessed.
Slight blade recess in safety razors may tempt shavers to use pressure and resort to buffing which both may lead to discomfort.
There are, however, a few safety razors with neutral or positive blade exposure and combined with the right blade gap these razors can produce such outstanding results where I challenge anyone to tell whether a person shaved with a straight razor or one of the latter.
Just like straight razors, safety razors have a learning too, but for someone coming from straights it should be fairly easy.
B.
Not much to add, except a link to another post here where a member measured some DE blades and calculated the bevel angle. See post #2.
No surprise to me that Feather DE blades had the nose acute angle, at a hair over 12 degrees.
Not sure how scientific his data is, but it does bear out the consensus that Feather blades are the sharpest, and possibly explains why the (thin, therefore more fragile?) edge wears more quickly and allows fewer shaves.
Regardless, if accurate, wouldn't the Feather DE blade angle be more acute than a typical SR?
www.badgerandblade.com
No surprise to me that Feather DE blades had the nose acute angle, at a hair over 12 degrees.
Not sure how scientific his data is, but it does bear out the consensus that Feather blades are the sharpest, and possibly explains why the (thin, therefore more fragile?) edge wears more quickly and allows fewer shaves.
Regardless, if accurate, wouldn't the Feather DE blade angle be more acute than a typical SR?
Blade bevel angle
A question that I has arisen in my mind over some time is the question of the Razor Blade Bevel Angle, not referring to shaving angle or anything like that, but just the angle at which the blade is sharpened. I have seen very little discussion regarding this on B&B and I really only found one...
www.badgerandblade.com
Most DE blades have wider bevel angles than typical straight razors. You can also modify the bevel angle on a straight razor.
It is easy to hone a straight razor to match the sharpness of a Feather blade (and pretty cheap too, in my opinion).
This is just not true.
As stated earlier, a feather de blade has a bevel angle of approx 24 deg.
16 to 17 deg is quite typical for straight razors.
I have two custom blades that have a bevel angle of 15 deg. There is less cutting resistance then if I use a feather de blade in a shavette.
That is even with an edge that is toned down for extra comfort.
Similar threads
