Damn Comfortable Shave

[willye]

I had bought a vintage razor from a feller that is on this forum and it was heads and hands above the one I had bought initially (Grimm Dollar) but I wasn't getting a smooth shave. It came honed but still it seems like it wasn't cutting my beard. I then bought a Dovo. Nothing special but it was a good solid razor and it came honed. I still felt like I wasn't really getting shaved.

So... I bought a water stone that was recommended by some articles I read and gave my vintage razor a dressing (8K grit) then stropped it really well. It was improved but still not shaving like I wanted. I then upgraded my strop as my old one was a cheapie that came with the Grimm when I bought it. I looked over your stropping posts with interest and I feel as if I am stropping adequately at least. I willl work on that.

It's been stated over and over that you need to get a lot of shaves under your belt before you start getting good shaves. So I may just be impatient. I noticed a while back that when my beard turned white, it also got a little tougher. I still get good shaves with DEs but not so much with SRs. So far I'm not trying my stone on the Dovo, so that I'll have at least one razor I haven't messed up!

I gather that a lot of forum members hone their own razors. I'm not really confident in my ability to do so. I was okay with the slight "dressing" I did on my Maples and Co. But hesitate to get much more into it.

Thanks for all the good input. Not sure what to do with the wooden shoe bit. Though I'm certain it's hilarious. <grin>

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Honing today...

These razors, top to bottom, are as follows:

• Robeson
• Kinfolk's #1
• Boker Extra Hollow Ground
• Bismarck
• Tanifuji

All were touched up on the convex coticule and then on the hard, black side of the Double Convex Arkansas 8x3. Maybe 50-70 laps on the DCA and fewer by far on the coticule.

I'm trying to max out these edges. No idea how much progress I made.

I'm also struggling with my photos as I'm using my daughter's castoff 2011 Macbook Air, which works okay for an old box, but apparently its AirDrop is not working. I played around to fix things but couldn't. Had to resort to the cloud for the photo. I'm not very familiar with that method. I'll figure it out better if I keep messing around with it.

Anyway, that was my honing. I may do more soon. Maybe today. Maybe not. I have the ERN razor next in line, the one I got from johnloc and don't regard as sharp enough.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I had bought a vintage razor from a feller that is on this forum and it was heads and hands above the one I had bought initially (Grimm Dollar) but I wasn't getting a smooth shave. It came honed but still it seems like it wasn't cutting my beard. I then bought a Dovo. Nothing special but it was a good solid razor and it came honed. I still felt like I wasn't really getting shaved.

So... I bought a water stone that was recommended by some articles I read and gave my vintage razor a dressing (8K grit) then stropped it really well. It was improved but still not shaving like I wanted. I then upgraded my strop as my old one was a cheapie that came with the Grimm when I bought it. I looked over your stropping posts with interest and I feel as if I am stropping adequately at least. I willl work on that.

It's been stated over and over that you need to get a lot of shaves under your belt before you start getting good shaves. So I may just be impatient. I noticed a while back that when my beard turned white, it also got a little tougher. I still get good shaves with DEs but not so much with SRs. So far I'm not trying my stone on the Dovo, so that I'll have at least one razor I haven't messed up!

I gather that a lot of forum members hone their own razors. I'm not really confident in my ability to do so. I was okay with the slight "dressing" I did on my Maples and Co. But hesitate to get much more into it.

Thanks for all the good input. Not sure what to do with the wooden shoe bit. Though I'm certain it's hilarious. <grin>

What wooden shoe?

Glad to hear your stropping is decent. That's a hugely important skill for the straight. Absolutely mandatory.

The whole straight razor thing takes a while. Don't be too very impatient. Most straight razors are not as sharp as manufactured blades although they can be as sharp or even sharper. The technique takes a long time to get down or at least it has for me and I'm still learning.

The first goal with the straight is to keep your blood inside.

The next goal is to persist. A hundred shaves will get you hooked and your technique will get better. My next goad was 365 straight razor shaves.

Generally people advise to learn straight razor shaving before adding honing. I didn't follow the good advice, but I still think it's the way to go if you can.

I had a very hard time getting a truly sharp straight razor, but it makes all the difference especially coupled with decent and improving technique.

Most people are smart enough not to go down the straight razor rabbit hole.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Biglo13]

My last breakthrough on the trans convex ark was. Decreasing stroke pressure. Last few strokes almost floating. I also started using a vintage hanging strop vs a bench / paddle strop

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

My last breakthrough on the trans convex ark was. Decreasing stroke pressure. Last few strokes almost floating. I also started using a vintage hanging strop vs a bench / paddle strop

I like the floating strokes thing. There's no such thing as too little pressure towards the end in my view. On the DCA, same thing.



I like my Professional Strop which is sorta kinda paddle strop, but I seem to use my huge horse shell (not cordovan) strop all the time now. I'm not saying it makes a bit of difference.

The PS has two side with different draws. The horse has a heavier draw than either I think.

 

[dundak]

I had bought a vintage razor from a feller that is on this forum and it was heads and hands above the one I had bought initially (Grimm Dollar) but I wasn't getting a smooth shave. It came honed but still it seems like it wasn't cutting my beard. I then bought a Dovo. Nothing special but it was a good solid razor and it came honed. I still felt like I wasn't really getting shaved.

So... I bought a water stone that was recommended by some articles I read and gave my vintage razor a dressing (8K grit) then stropped it really well. It was improved but still not shaving like I wanted. I then upgraded my strop as my old one was a cheapie that came with the Grimm when I bought it. I looked over your stropping posts with interest and I feel as if I am stropping adequately at least. I willl work on that.

It's been stated over and over that you need to get a lot of shaves under your belt before you start getting good shaves. So I may just be impatient. I noticed a while back that when my beard turned white, it also got a little tougher. I still get good shaves with DEs but not so much with SRs. So far I'm not trying my stone on the Dovo, so that I'll have at least one razor I haven't messed up!

I gather that a lot of forum members hone their own razors. I'm not really confident in my ability to do so. I was okay with the slight "dressing" I did on my Maples and Co. But hesitate to get much more into it.

Thanks for all the good input. Not sure what to do with the wooden shoe bit. Though I'm certain it's hilarious.

Stropping in the keystone of SR shaving. It takes some fiddling but eventually you will combine the right amount of slack and or pressure to hit the apex of the edge consistently and it will be like day and night.

Use a razor you aren’t particularly fond of and start putting steel to stone. Post pics and progress in a thread on the honing forum and a lot of guys will pipe up to give you tips and ideas. In the end it’s just rubbing steel on rocks. It’s an exponential learning process once you get the first one done. They might not be vorpal blades at first but they will at least shave.


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[Chan Eil Whiskers]

My shave today was disappointing.

The edge is not there.

The edge didn't feel smooth nor did it shave very closely. In all respects it was not the edge I had hoped for. It's not as good as it was before yesterday's effort. Still, it did shave.

It is, and I hate to say this, possible I made a mistake during my stropping, a mistake fatal to the edge. I know I made a first ever stropping mistake, but I don't know if the edge was great until that and ruined by me. Just saying...

The software, including Dragonsbeard Skin Food Splash and hyaluronic acid, were helpful.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[MO1]

I suspect my computer's going on a road trip tomorrow. Tried to back it up, but my external hard drive's caput. I thought it was the adaptor to my MacbookPro but that's not it. Ordered a new hard drive and will pick it up today and back up tonight.

The key between the d & the g is not working. This has been "repaired" in the past at the Genius Bar (so called). Like probably millions I'm not enamored with the butter_ly mechanism in my laptop's keyboard. The old scissor key board mechanism was vastly superior.

Shame on Apple!

Their boxes are not inexpensive, but that doesn't stop them when it comes to cutting corners and "improving" things with worthless junk components. What was it Steve Jobs used to say about Apples? Oh, yeah, "they just work." Well mine (this one) has been in the shop (gone to the _actory) more than once, and is still problematic.

Good thing I paid a small _ortune _or AppleCare.

How will I keep up on B&B without my box? Phone or maybe an old computer? We'll see. Just hope I can get a good bootable o__ the external hard drive backup.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Do you have a laptop? If you have a stationary computer I suggest SSD(solid state drive) a little more expensive than the usual hard drive. But it's not a moving component, so it will last way longer plus it's faster.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Do you have a laptop? If you have a stationary computer I suggest SSD(solid state drive) a little more expensive than the usual hard drive. But it's not a moving component, so it will last way longer plus it's faster.

My Macbook Pro (2016, I think) laptop has a SSD. They're definitely the way to go. It was originally made at the factory as a SSD box.

My previous Macbook Pro (2008) laptop came from the factory with a spinning disk hard drive. Later I replaced it with a big SSD and upgraded the RAM. Turned out to not made the difference I expected. There are many more components in the hardware than RAM and storage.

Keyboards being one.

The keyboard on this box, the one I using at the moment (Macbook Air, 2011), which is my daughter's castoff, is infinitely better than the keyboard on my current Macbook Pro. This keyboard is the scissors design and truly a nice keyboard in all respects. The MBP uses a butterfly design; it may be the worst mistake Apple ever made. Steve Jobs would be turning in his grave as they say. What a piece of junk.

Shame on Apple!

My box is off at the factory shop. Probably replacing the keyboard, but with only the latest ("better") version of the butterfly, which will be just the latest piece of junk. Avoid butterfly keyboards, gentlemen.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Friday's kit...

I'm stealing old photos of mine and duplicating kit to avoid the hassle of new photos (and no AirDrop) with this box and my phone.

Still, this is good stuff to use again, but what about the edge? It was after all in the same recently honed group as yesterday's edge which was not good at all.

This edge is good. I'm almost tempted to say it's top drawer. It's not top drawer as my edges go, but it's close to that level. The first pass was good (but not great). The overall shave was very good, but not great. I'm sure the edge can be improved (maxed out).

It may just need another stropping and another shave to improve. It really is a very nice edge now.

Also used Dragonsbeard SFS and hyaluronic acid.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Raven Koenes]

Friday's kit...

View attachment 1053405

I'm stealing old photos of mine and duplicating kit to avoid the hassle of new photos (and no AirDrop) with this box and my phone.

Still, this is good stuff to use again, but what about the edge? It was after all in the same recently honed group as yesterday's edge which was not good at all.

This edge is good. I'm almost tempted to say it's top drawer. It's not top drawer as my edges go, but it's close to that level. The first pass was good (but not great). The overall shave was very good, but not great. I'm sure the edge can be improved (maxed out).

It may just need another stropping and another shave to improve. It really is a very nice edge now.

Also used Dragonsbeard SFS and hyaluronic acid.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Ahhhh, Flying Mango . I like the ladybug you use in your pictures. I have a few different ladybug miniatures lying around the house. What's up with that? (insert music from The Twilight Zone)

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Ladybugs are good luck or so I've heard but I just like 'em.

 

[Seveneighth]

View attachment 1052660

This is truly weird even by BOSC standards.:

I noticed today in conversation that I was avoiding words beginning with or containing the letter between the d & the g on my keyboard.

I changed to a more inclusive selection, vocabulary words I mean, in conversation.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Mind blown. Actually started laughing out loud at this. Other half thinks I am hanging around with extremely suspicious types when I explained why I was laughing.

 

[Seveneighth]

[emoji106] Hey this is something Jim! It has to mean something to building your confidence on your way to becoming a hone miester.

I have long suspected he is better at honing than any of us, but that his edge standards are higher...

 

[Seveneighth]

Stropping in the keystone of SR shaving. It takes some fiddling but eventually you will combine the right amount of slack and or pressure to hit the apex of the edge consistently and it will be like day and night.

Use a razor you aren’t particularly fond of and start putting steel to stone. Post pics and progress in a thread on the honing forum and a lot of guys will pipe up to give you tips and ideas. In the end it’s just rubbing steel on rocks. It’s an exponential learning process once you get the first one done. They might not be vorpal blades at first but they will at least shave.


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This. 100%

 

[Biglo13]

JIm,
Still trying to confirm my hypothesis..... some razors will not finish well using convex ark system alone, some razors require varying degrees of synthetic, or other known progression before finishing with convex ark.

I Love the convex ark edge and would love to the convex ark system exclusively, but like you, Occasionally I find ark system slightly underperforming.
My most consistent results/experiment has been with full synthetic 12k plus progression, then finishing on convex ark.

I then started testing taking away steps from synth progression..... early results are showing that a good 5K edge may be enough synth progression before finishing with convex ark...... but need a larger sample size to confirm.

 

[yungleen]

Have you tried shaving with oil vs cream or soap? For me I get a closer shave with less irritation. I always go back and try soaps and creams but doesn't work as well for me.

I splash warm/hot water on my face a few times, rub about 6 drops of oil in my wet hands, rub them together, and then rub on my face. I shave with the grain for first pass. I add water to area of my fave before shaving it. Second pass I add a few more drops of oil and go right to against the grain. For me it gives a very close, comfortable shave. The oil will keep you face moisturized and comfortable after the shave even if you use witch hazel.

I have used olive oil, shave secret, razorock lime oil, Alonzo's, etc. They all work well, I think I like shave secret best. It is a little thicker and I don't get much irritation.

Ikon shavecraft 101 razor has been the most comfortable for me and gives great shaves.

 

[Somerled]

Mind blown. Actually started laughing out loud at this. Other half thinks I am hanging around with extremely suspicious types when I explained why I was laughing.

Well, she would be in good company with my other half then

Of course, she might not be far wrong. It is the internet after all.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

JIm,
Still trying to confirm my hypothesis..... some razors will not finish well using convex ark system alone, some razors require varying degrees of synthetic, or other known progression before finishing with convex ark.

I Love the convex ark edge and would love to the convex ark system exclusively, but like you, Occasionally I find ark system slightly underperforming.
My most consistent results/experiment has been with full synthetic 12k plus progression, then finishing on convex ark.

I then started testing taking away steps from synth progression..... early results are showing that a good 5K edge may be enough synth progression before finishing with convex ark...... but need a larger sample size to confirm.

Occasionally I find ark system slightly underperforming.

I think, just based on my experience, that what underperforms is me.

I never use the 5K any more, but perhaps I should.

One of the razors I used recently is a good case in point. I had a pretty good edge on it (an edge off the convex Ark stones). I tried to improve it, to max it out, using a combination of the convex coticule and the convex finishing Ark; this is a combination I know for sure can work well. The results? Not good at all. A decided failure.

Another razor, having been treated to the exact same stones, same day, same honing technique, had excellent results.

To be completely transparent it's possible I screwed up the edge of the bad shaving razor with a bad stropping stroke (one weird bad move).

I've gotten good edges with all sorts of stones. Like the rest of you gentlemen I have this little problem.

• I don't actually know what I'm doing. I'm really just fumbling about with stones.
• I'm terribly unsystematic, and unscientific, and not very methodical.
• Some edges are better than others.
• My standards continue to progress. I'm still chasing a dream.

I'm not saying all of you guys have all of these ^ problems, but I'd bet all of you have at least one of them.

However, I have a few edges I'll brag on. Let me describe them.

• They deliver a great shave every time.
• The first pass - a more or less ATG, S-N pass - delivers. I could probably stop after it and have a good shave. Now, to be fair, this one pass shave involves ghost lathered passes, and is absolutely not really one pass on my lips or chin, and not, strictly speaking, one pass anywhere, but it's as one pass as I get.
• I usually don't quit after this first pass, but the point is I could.
• The edge is extremely comfortable and smooth feeling.

That's the standard I hold out hopes of achieving with every razor.

I tend to think everyone else's edge are usually better than mine. I hope you have great edges and suspect you do (or why shave with 'em). Maybe we all have both good and bad edges now but we all want to end up with a few (how many is a few) really good one. Some of us will always continue to acquire vintage or new razors needing a good edge. Others of us will find our seven, or four, or forty best and just do minor maintenance after they're all sharp and smooth.

I have friends who say the different steels and forging methods evolved hand in glove with the locally available stones so jnats work better with Japanese razors, Thuringians with German razors, Arks with American blades, etc. These are very smart guys who are very well informed and I wouldn't presume to argue with them.

However, I don't have all those stones. I have a motley crew of synthetics. I have a flat coticule, and a nice big Zulu Grey, and some flat Arks. I have a convex coticule and a few convex Arks. No Thuringian. No janats.

I can easily enough get a not sharp feeling but still pretty good shaving edge with a flat coticule. I can get a sharp and good edge with the Zulu Grey. My flat Ark edges are good sometimes. Very good maybe. I think the convex Ark edges are better but sometimes they're not. The Arks, flat and convex, are, to me, very slow.

I tend to find all stones a lot slower than many people say they are. Probably they're much better than me at using the stones.

I find the synthetics faster than the naturals, particularly the Arks. I don't understand how some guys get great edges so rapidly with so few laps. I believe they do, but I'm not able to so far. Honing is never easy for me and never fast. Good thing I like it well enough and have the time to do it, but, like everyone, there's never enough time, and I don't love honing. I'd prefer to do less of it, but why do I continue to buy razors needing to be honed?

I can set the bevel with the 320 Shapton for chip removal, the Chosera 1K for most of the work, and the 3K SS for initial polishing. Then I can move to naturals. Is this the way to go? I have no idea.

I'm not consistent. Sometimes I'll use the Washita and then the soft convexed Ark. Sometimes the mid range flat coticule. Maybe the Zulu Grey with a DCA finish.

I don't think one has to use a linear progression. Not saying using one is wrong either.

I hope that addresses some of your questions, but really I am merely fumbling about and playing with stones and sometimes getting really great edges (but not always by any means).

Is any stone a better finisher for any razor than an Ark? That's a question I can only answer within the range of my experience. Not having the jnats handicaps my answer, but my answer is nothing beats a good DCA edge.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[dundak]

Honing is confusing. Everyone has their method. It’s muddied even more because bits and pieces are borrowed from knife sharpening, Japanese sword polishing etc. it’s compounded by the fact that many “honemeisters” may have different habits. They may shave weekly, every other day, have a beard or goatee.

I was just taught to simplify. Set bevel if needed and polish. I don’t do progressions pyramids, methods etc. I filter out all the noise and keep it focused on those two steps. After that it’s all maintenance. I don’t want to set the bevel again. So it’s all about stropping, judicious use of pastes and light touch ups.

All finishers, arks, ZG, JNat, synths, pastes, will get you that final polish with any razor. It’s just a matter of how fast once your bevel is set.

I think that a lot of SR users have over complicated the process and set expectations so high on what is shave ready.

This leads new guys to constantly question and doubt. Is your shave close and irritation free? Then you are 95% there. The rest will come with time. I’ve known men in my life that shaved off the equivalent of 8K edges finished with pastes. I’ve used those razors and they were fine. I guess I look at SR honing as something that allows me to shave, not a hobby or pursuit in itself.




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