what grit are most coti's I have head and read around 8K is this true?
coti question
- Thread starter abush1984
- Start date
What you have read is an over-simplicification, all natural hones are different even those reported to come from the same vein.
You can't really put a grit rating on a natural hone, but you can make qualitative comparisons. My cotis, for example, generally give an edge equivalent to a 10k-12k synthetic finisher. Rarely I can push it up closer to a 15k. Lots of variables involved though, like which coti am I using? was I "on point" with my technique that day? Are we talking keenness, comfort, some combination of both? Etc.
Assigning a grit level to cotis is an exercise in futility. They vary quite a bit stone to stone and an individual hone can vary greatly depending on how it is used.
In my opinion every coticule (ok some exceptions like Hybrid side of Les Latneuse, and some La Verte`s, my "black" BBB that are finer) gives a smooth edge. Even the most discused veins like La Grise deliver a superb shaving edge.
I learned more then 200 of them now, only one was too rough for a finish.
So i think they are all in a small range about 7-9k, and nobody can feel difference between a maybe Old Rock/Salmen etc. to a newly minded one, as long the razor was honed good. Some of the older ones may be special selected for "easy" razor honing, but they can do it all.
On other forums they talk about 15k coticule, absolutely rubbish in my opinion. You have to max out the performance of each stone, and nearly nobody can do this.
Greets Sebastian.
I learned more then 200 of them now, only one was too rough for a finish.
So i think they are all in a small range about 7-9k, and nobody can feel difference between a maybe Old Rock/Salmen etc. to a newly minded one, as long the razor was honed good. Some of the older ones may be special selected for "easy" razor honing, but they can do it all.
On other forums they talk about 15k coticule, absolutely rubbish in my opinion. You have to max out the performance of each stone, and nearly nobody can do this.
Greets Sebastian.
- Thread starter
- #6
good stuff guys I was thinking the one I have is more in the range of an 8K IMO but I could be wrong I bought it on www.theperfectedge.com it is a great little stone and I have honed two razors already and can shave with them its not the best shave but its doable. I know this is not where I want to stop so I was just wondering if in most case would a around about way would 8K be a good guess for grit. I am still pretty new to honing and I am sure this stone has more to offer just have to keep playing with it. But I am looking for a good cheaper finisher just to have to really bring the razors to a nice edge.
A quick Youtube Honing vid, with a fast Coticule. I don`t use Slurry at all, because in most cases the stone will develop slurry of its own.
This is no slowmotion or fastmotion, just like i hone with coticules.
I think you don`t max out your coti, or maybe your skin don`t like this kind of "dull" sharpness......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhSAyu_ThDs
Greets Sebastian.
This is no slowmotion or fastmotion, just like i hone with coticules.
I think you don`t max out your coti, or maybe your skin don`t like this kind of "dull" sharpness......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhSAyu_ThDs
Greets Sebastian.
- Thread starter
- #8
Holy speed honing haha! I might have to try that method out but I only have the small 4 X 2 stone might be fun ill have to keep the first aid kit handy.
Holy speed honing haha! I might have to try that method out but I only have the small 4 X 2 stone might be fun ill have to keep the first aid kit handy.
This is a vid with a about 4*2 inch very slow coti (La Verte Vein, one of the stones i use slurry for):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5sD_cDn99k
Greets Sebastian.
Good stuff. This really highlights the futility of a grit rating. I see a lot of people talk about cotis being in the 8k range, but my subjective opinion is that-- on my face only, mind you-- a good coti hone gives an equivalent shave to a 10 or 12k Naniwa or Shapton, in terms of sharpness. I can't shave comfortably off a 8k stone or half-decent barber's hone; either they tear up my face or the shave is nowhere near as close.
It's not just my hone jobs either, when I've had others hone for me I get the same impressions. (Ok the 15k claim I cheated a bit on; I used my Les Lat hybrid and a pinch of aluminum oxide at the very end). But again, these are all my subjective experiences. YMMV. Sebastian's experiences (and no doubt many others) are quite different from mine.
I,m not sure about grit rating with coticules. I,d just say a good coticule edge is super smooth and you carnt describe it to any one, you have to experience the feel your self. Most coticules are capable of giving a good shave, some decent and some literally magical feel.
the best thing you could do is use unicot method, this way you can hit max sharpness easier than dilucot and you get the chance to experience a true coticule edge. This will also give you an idea of how nice your coticule can finish a razors edge. Once you master that you can try and match that with dilucot . Either way you have a good idea of what to aim for .
the best thing you could do is use unicot method, this way you can hit max sharpness easier than dilucot and you get the chance to experience a true coticule edge. This will also give you an idea of how nice your coticule can finish a razors edge. Once you master that you can try and match that with dilucot . Either way you have a good idea of what to aim for .
- Thread starter
- #12
okay newbie question what the hell is "Unicot and Dilucot"
- Thread starter
- #13
Nevermind it was a simple google search away.
IMO - comparisons only apply to an edge one person has produced, and not the stone.
And - even then it's a subjective call.
Someone says they get 15k edges off a particular Coti - well, which 15k stone are we comparing the Coti too? A Shapton Pro 15k? That's more like a 12k SS to me. So, already we have a discrepancy. I personally have bettered edges off a 12k SS with a Coticule, so saying Coticules are 7-9k or, at times, 15k - just doesn't work for me.
Grit is usually referenced as a means to determine the possible sharpeness - but sharp means a lot of things. In and of itself, the concept of grit means very little and it creates more confusion that one might imagine. People looking to put a formula to honing with natural stones would be much better served by getting off the recipe trail and forgetting the grit game and just refining their skills at setting bevels and then applying that training to the rest of the process down the line.
- Thread starter
- #16
i have only been honing for a short while now and I know I need lots of practice. But that's why I ask all these newbie questions to get answers that might help me out like the question I answered myself just before a little Google search and bam! Now I know.
Cool, stick with it! It takes a while to be able to get good edges off natural stones.
Spend a little time on http://www.coticule.be/ The time spent will be well worth it in the long run and I find it interesting reading. Make sure you watch Gary's honing videos. Coticules call him SIR.
You ou can google unicot method. I would say have a go at dilucot. If not quite there, pop one layer of electrical tape I recommend the heavy duty 88 super I think it's so thing like that on eBay . Then perform a couple of sets of circles or half strokes with medium pressure with water only then a nice 50 strokes on water the whole process with water. Dry razor take a thick medium hair and you should pop and catch real easy, some do t agree with hht test but trust me it's a great way to judge your there. Then strop 60 linen and leather .
if you get it right you will get a smooth shave, and I,ve shaved of 12 k edges crox pasted edges and if smoothness is anything to go by the coticule surpasses both easily.
- Thread starter
- #20
thanks there is some good stuff on there.
