Chirurgical hone

[RickD]

I just got a new hone (pictures included), but I’m not sure how to use it. It’s a Swaty-Stein Alumin “for razors, chirurgical instruments, etc.” Any suggestions on prep? Use? Should I lather it like a barber’s hone? Water? Oil?

I will probably experiment, but thought I’d ask if anyone had some insights before I went all Mad Scientist.

Thanks
Rick

 

[stone and strop]

If you decide to lap it a bit finish pretty high - 1500 -2000 grit then rub in some Vaseline.
Use with water only as far as I'm concerned, no need to use lather on a barber hone.

 

[Slash McCoy]

First time I have seen that box. There were several different Swaty barber hones, some better than others, apparently. My understanding was the best ones are the three-line ones, i.e. the stamped label on the hone itself has three lines of text, and those are the only Swaty hones that I have actually used. This one, I would try it with just lather and see how it behaves. Don't expect it to set a bevel or anything. Maybe set a bevel on a 1k, hit a 3k or so synthetic, then give this one a go. You could try moderate pressure for a dozen or two laps, then gradually reduce pressure to as light as you can manage while holding the hone in hand, replenishing the lather as necessary.

You could also try refreshing a slightly dulled but previously sharp edge among your razors in rotation, with a dozen or so laps on lather.

I would try it without lapping, first. Lapping these old BH's can be opening up a real can of worms. Lather or dish soap should be fine, and water, but I am not sure I would want to risk any sort of oil on it. Glycerine should be okay but you know that lather won't hurt it so I would definitely start with that.

 

[RickD]

If you decide to lap it a bit finish pretty high - 1500 -2000 grit then rub in some Vaseline.
Use with water only as far as I'm concerned, no need to use lather on a barber hone.

I have a lapping stone, but I don't know the grit. Feels like in the range you mentioned. I've never used anything but water, but don't know anything about this stone.

Thanks for the help.

 

[RickD]

First time I have seen that box. There were several different Swaty barber hones, some better than others, apparently. My understanding was the best ones are the three-line ones, i.e. the stamped label on the hone itself has three lines of text, and those are the only Swaty hones that I have actually used. This one, I would try it with just lather and see how it behaves. Don't expect it to set a bevel or anything. Maybe set a bevel on a 1k, hit a 3k or so synthetic, then give this one a go. You could try moderate pressure for a dozen or two laps, then gradually reduce pressure to as light as you can manage while holding the hone in hand, replenishing the lather as necessary.

You could also try refreshing a slightly dulled but previously sharp edge among your razors in rotation, with a dozen or so laps on lather.

I would try it without lapping, first. Lapping these old BH's can be opening up a real can of worms. Lather or dish soap should be fine, and water, but I am not sure I would want to risk any sort of oil on it. Glycerine should be okay but you know that lather won't hurt it so I would definitely start with that.

I would only use it for touch up, or hopefully finishing. I have a couple of razors that I can use for testing the Swaty. I'm not far enough into SR shaving to have a rotation yet, though I have a couple of razors I know will be in it.

Thanks for the help.

 

[stone and strop]

I have a lapping stone, but I don't know the grit. Feels like in the range you mentioned. I've never used anything but water, but don't know anything about this stone.

Thanks for the help.

Most lapping stones/plates are not very fine. I would use w/d paper and water.
If you have some experience with honing your own razors then I would give yourself an 8k edge (tested with shave) then give it a few wipes on the hone 10-25 or so then strop and test shave again and see if there is any improvement.
If you decide there is not much difference then use a razor till it starts to tug a bit and try refreshing with it - again 10-25 strop and shave to see if it brings the edge back to an acceptable level.

 

[Chandu]

Just use it. Barbers of old, didn't go bonkers over 100% flat surfaces and they go the job done. These were typically larger grit than what is commonly available today and were burnished. Lapping it will likely only interfere with the intended finish.

 

[Namkcakram]

I’ve got one b hone currently that came pre-lapped, and then I re-lapped. It’s taken a while to burnish again but now it’s a decent finisher or touch up stone.

I almost feel lucky that the lapping worked out as well as it did, if it had turned to dust or started shedding abrasive it wouldn’t have surprised me.

 

[RickD]

Most lapping stones/plates are not very fine. I would use w/d paper and water.
If you have some experience with honing your own razors then I would give yourself an 8k edge (tested with shave) then give it a few wipes on the hone 10-25 or so then strop and test shave again and see if there is any improvement.
If you decide there is not much difference then use a razor till it starts to tug a bit and try refreshing with it - again 10-25 strop and shave to see if it brings the edge back to an acceptable level.

Great suggestions. I'm going to test it first, the way you described sounds good. I'm hoping it doesn't need to be lapped, it looks pretty good.

Thanks for the help.

 

[RickD]

Just use it. Barbers of old, didn't go bonkers over 100% flat surfaces and they go the job done. These were typically larger grit than what is commonly available today and were burnished. Lapping it will likely only interfere with the intended finish.

I wasn't aware of the burnishing, I will definitely take that into account. I will test it several times on a couple of razors and decide with to do from there.

Thanks!

 

[RickD]

I’ve got one b hone currently that came pre-lapped, and then I re-lapped. It’s taken a while to burnish again but now it’s a decent finisher or touch up stone.

I almost feel lucky that the lapping worked out as well as it did, if it had turned to dust or started shedding abrasive it wouldn’t have surprised me.

I'm worried about what a lapping stone might do to the surface, sounds like yours came back. I don't plan on making it my main stone, probably just touch up. Mainly I just wanted to use it from time to time for nostalgic reasons. I've really enjoyed getting back to straight razor shaving.

 

[Chandu]

I wasn't aware of the burnishing, I will definitely take that into account. I will test it several times on a couple of razors and decide with to do from there.

Thanks!

Back in the day they didn’t have all the grit sizes we do today. Larger grit can cut finer than the grit size would indicate if the surface is burnished. Essentially, grit that has been smoothed. That alone also would tell you these barber hones are Probably aluminum oxide of some sort as you really can’t burnish silicon carbide and surely not diamond.

 

[Gamma]

I have one, have had it for a while now. I prefer the 'original' Swaty, but a good condition Alumin hone isn't that far off. Mileage can vary tremendously here due to variables, expectations, and skill sets. In a very general sense, Both versions of Swaty hones benefit from lapping, resurfacing and reconditioning. It's a very straightforward process, not difficult to do, definitely not a can of worms. Back when these were made, barbers weren't concerned with restoring them because their hones were brand new. Today, those b-hones are 100+ yr old, and have been stored badly in hot attics and damp basements, etc. Refurbishing them makes perfect sense and it will improve their performance. They do best when flat, and polished smooth.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I have one, have had it for a while now. I prefer the 'original' Swaty, but a good condition Alumin hone isn't that far off. Mileage can vary tremendously here due to variables, expectations, and skill sets. In a very general sense, Both versions of Swaty hones benefit from lapping, resurfacing and reconditioning. It's a very straightforward process, not difficult to do, definitely not a can of worms. Back when these were made, barbers weren't concerned with restoring them because their hones were brand new. Today, those b-hones are 100+ yr old, and have been stored badly in hot attics and damp basements, etc. Refurbishing them makes perfect sense and it will improve their performance. They do best when flat, and polished smooth.

Sounds like a good tutorial topic.

 

[Chandu]

Today, those b-hones are 100+ yr old, and have been stored badly in hot attics and damp basements, etc. Refurbishing them makes perfect sense and it will improve their performance. They do best when flat, and polished smooth.

I've had several I used on my wood working tools. Almost all of them were in near mint condition. Easy enough to find good ones rather than buy ones that look dodgy and need work. I've spent zero time lapping any sharpening stone I've ever owned and that is as long as I plan to spend on any future ones.

Flat stones are for measurebating fanatics that talk theory rather than put things into practice.

 

[RickD]

Back in the day they didn’t have all the grit sizes we do today. Larger grit can cut finer than the grit size would indicate if the surface is burnished. Essentially, grit that has been smoothed. That alone also would tell you these barber hones are Probably aluminum oxide of some sort as you really can’t burnish silicon carbide and surely not diamond.

Great info. I guess I should avoid lapping and try and keep the burnish.

 

[RickD]

I have one, have had it for a while now. I prefer the 'original' Swaty, but a good condition Alumin hone isn't that far off. Mileage can vary tremendously here due to variables, expectations, and skill sets. In a very general sense, Both versions of Swaty hones benefit from lapping, resurfacing and reconditioning. It's a very straightforward process, not difficult to do, definitely not a can of worms. Back when these were made, barbers weren't concerned with restoring them because their hones were brand new. Today, those b-hones are 100+ yr old, and have been stored badly in hot attics and damp basements, etc. Refurbishing them makes perfect sense and it will improve their performance. They do best when flat, and polished smooth.

This one appears almost new, definitely not extensive use - both sides. I actually tested it today, honing on the Swaty after honing on my 8k. Definitely shaved better after the Swaty. Pretty decent shave for a first use.

If the original is better, I may keep an eye out for a deal. I noticed this was made by Pike in America. I don't know if that makes a difference.

 

[RickD]

I've had several I used on my wood working tools. Almost all of them were in near mint condition. Easy enough to find good ones rather than buy ones that look dodgy and need work. I've spent zero time lapping any sharpening stone I've ever owned and that is as long as I plan to spend on any future ones.

Flat stones are for measurebating fanatics that talk theory rather than put things into practice.

This one is in good shape, even the box is well preserved. I'm lucky, I think I'm a long way from needing to lap it.

 

[Gamma]

This one appears almost new, definitely not extensive use - both sides. I actually tested it today, honing on the Swaty after honing on my 8k. Definitely shaved better after the Swaty. Pretty decent shave for a first use.

If the original is better, I may keep an eye out for a deal. I noticed this was made by Pike in America. I don't know if that makes a difference.

Yours looks to be in decent shape, but very dry. Lapping to an un-oxidized layer and then polishing a bit with adding a bit of mineral oil will do wonders. I mean, that's just my opinion; but after refurbishing 70 or 80 of them I think I have a handle on it at this point.

The original Swaty, the one referred to as a 3 line or 2 line or whatever is much harder and worth checking out. When conditioned correctly It's one of the best of it's type.

The photo you posted up above appears to show an Austrian Alumin but I'm interested to know why you said it's a Pike. I have owned many Pike Swaty hones, there was some sort of partnership across the pond. The Pike Swaty is much different than the original though.

 

[Gamma]

Sounds like a good tutorial topic.

I'm kicking myself for not doing one on Ian's Lakeside, it's still in process but coming along well. Eventually though, there be some sort of post, thread, video, page, etc on refreshing them. It's a very niche concern, not many people care about barber hones anymore.