Chinese 12k too soft?

[jamsie]

Brand new to this game and just bought a what was described as a natural chinese waterstone (12k?) from Carbatec in Perth Western Australia. It is not grey but greenish in colour. Thought it would be hard to lap but it took <10 minutes using 400 grit wet/dry

The stone is extremely soft when wet then dries back to a firm state and does not look like the pictures shown in Joel's hone stone guide. The heel of my razor gently clipped the edge of the stone at my first attempt at honing and it cut a piece of the stone it is that soft. Slurry can be created by adding a bit of water and rubbing a finger over the stone

Was wondering if I should continue to use this hone after my norton 4/8k and if so do I have to do lots of laps on it

 

[xChris]

Doesn't read like you got the same type of stone. Mine is definitely gray-blackish gray, and no real slurry visibly develops from jus honing or rubbing on it. If it wasn't advertised as being 12K grit, then I'd suspect that as well.

Not sure if it's suitable after the Norton 4K/8K. Check the scratch pattern under a handheld microscope, do a couple of kenness tests (e.g., thumbnail test, thumbpad test) to determine how the edge is developing from using this stone. What's the bevel look like after using that stone (i.e., shiny, hazy, scratched, etc.).

Pictures would be great if you have a means of posting them.

 

[SavantStrike]

This doesn't sound like my 12k. Mine was also a dark grey/black slate kind of color, and I swear it almost felt as hard (and heavy) as if it was ceramic.

 

[highball]

bought a what was described as a natural chinese waterstone (12k?) :

Mine says Natural polishing stone on the box

 

[persco]

The heel of my razor gently clipped the edge of the stone at my first attempt at honing and it cut a piece of the stone it is that soft.

I think if you had the Chinese 12k stone, the situation would have been the opposite. The stone would have clipped a chip out of your blade. The Chinese 12k is extremely hard. It takes several minutes to create a slurry on it, rubbing vigorously with a Chinese 12k slurry stone (cut from another stone using a diamond wet saw).

 

[jamsie]

The picture is an extract from the shop's catalogue. The CWS means chinese waterstone and NWS means natural japanese water stone. I think I may have bought a NWS labelled as a CWS as the colour looks the same as the stone I have. Now confused as to what an NWS does! - the stones were not boxed

All guesswork but I assume the stone will not harm my razor?

Today was my first day learning to hone / strop and straight razor shave and I tried to get my factory razor into a shave ready state. I hacked away at my face with limited success, only a couple of tiny cuts but major razor burn around the chin. Not new to wet shaving having done it for 30+ years so I guess this is just one variable that I don't know about. The variables that I know are my lapped 4/8k, Dovo strop and an Edwin Jagger razor. I may park this soft stone till I can crack a good shave with the 4/8k & strop

 

[chess1]

yes i agree you get japan stone instead of chinese .chinese is really hard one takes a lot long time to lap .

 

[professorchaos]

Yep. Doesn't sound like the 12K I had. It was exceedingly hard.

 

[SavantStrike]

The picture is an extract from the shop's catalogue. The CWS means chinese waterstone and NWS means natural japanese water stone. I think I may have bought a NWS labelled as a CWS as the colour looks the same as the stone I have. Now confused as to what an NWS does! - the stones were not boxed

All guesswork but I assume the stone will not harm my razor?

Today was my first day learning to hone / strop and straight razor shave and I tried to get my factory razor into a shave ready state. I hacked away at my face with limited success, only a couple of tiny cuts but major razor burn around the chin. Not new to wet shaving having done it for 30+ years so I guess this is just one variable that I don't know about. The variables that I know are my lapped 4/8k, Dovo strop and an Edwin Jagger razor. I may park this soft stone till I can crack a good shave with the 4/8k & strop

Well, is the NWS also a 12k stone, or is it a lower grit? If it's a 12k then you should be able to take it from the 8k to the 12k just like the rest of us do with the Chinese stones.

I don't know that you'll like the edge straight off of 8k. You should consider using one of the several pastes available to bring it up a notch.

 

[jamsie]

I had another bash at a couple of dozen laps on the 'green' stone and then stropped at least 50 times. Had a shave and the difference was night and day from my first attempt. There was no hacking, no burn and the shave was much better. There is obviously loads of room for improvement as my stropping skill builds but I am really pleased with the result so far.

Really intrigued now to find out the grit of the stone as it has a silky smooth feel in comparison to the 4/8k. I don't have any optical gear so may ask my local University to have a look

 

[SavantStrike]

I had another bash at a couple of dozen laps on the 'green' stone and then stropped at least 50 times. Had a shave and the difference was night and day from my first attempt. There was no hacking, no burn and the shave was much better. There is obviously loads of room for improvement as my stropping skill builds but I am really pleased with the result so far.

Really intrigued now to find out the grit of the stone as it has a silky smooth feel in comparison to the 4/8k. I don't have any optical gear so may ask my local University to have a look

Interesting. Judging from the fact that your stone definitely doesn't sound like a Chinese 12k, and from the fact that the merchant you bought it from sells Japanese waterstones as well, It sounds like you have a Japanese waterstone that is probably 10K+. How much did it cost you if you don't mind me asking?

 

[jamsie]

The stone cost around $30AUD ($23USD). Another point that I did not metion about the stone was that I let it soak in water for about 20 mins and it split in two. The stone was made of two parts like the 4/8k so the split resulted in 2 thinner stones of the original length and width.

I currently work in Kazakhstan so have a stone in Australia for my razor there and one here

I'm so intrigued that I may invest in a 400x computer microscope so that I can check the grit myself (if that's possible) and also check the blade's progress as I sharpen it.

That's the problem with websites like this, I get caught up with everyone's enthusiasm and seek perfection

 

[SavantStrike]

The stone cost around $30AUD ($23USD). Another point that I did not metion about the stone was that I let it soak in water for about 20 mins and it split in two. The stone was made of two parts like the 4/8k so the split resulted in 2 thinner stones of the original length and width.

I currently work in Kazakhstan so have a stone in Australia for my razor there and one here

I'm so intrigued that I may invest in a 400x computer microscope so that I can check the grit myself (if that's possible) and also check the blade's progress as I sharpen it.

That's the problem with websites like this, I get caught up with everyone's enthusiasm and seek perfection

Hey don't go blaming us