Checking my thoughts

[shifty06]

So first I should give a short introduction since this my first post.

I have been shaving exclusively with straight razors for 7-8 years now (as in not even 1 shave with a plastic thing, or DE razor.) I am self taught so I prolly have lots of bad habits but don't we all. I have been a long time lurker of this forum an finally decided to join an ask some questions I have.


So for the last year I have been shaving with a feather with disposable blades for the convenience it offered, I was tired of maintaining my razor (didn't have the extra time with a newborn) I have since regained sometime and are ready to pick up my trusty razors.

I guess it would be best to start with what I have, an thought progression leading up to the question so we are all on the same page.

My equipment now is a N4k/8k its all I have used an basic strop no pastes. I have been able to keep a good shaving edge. Sometimes I can really put a nice edge on it sometimes its just a good edge.


It all started when I was looking for a new razor to treat myself rejoining the master race of razors. I've always wanted a Dovo Bismark don't know why just like them. Then I found this awesome little company (I like supporting the little man). ran my a man named Ralf Aust. So I have decided on purchasing one of his fine razors.

Now the next thought is well I will need to redo the edge of my 2 razors I have now a Dovo Col. Conk 5/8 round point, and Beau Brummel #35 5/8 American point. (I have prolly 6 vintage razors but they are just for collecting).


Now I was thinking "well I prolly need a finer grit since that's how you get a better edge.", after a little reading an mainly on this site I have come to terms, that's not the correct answer. The correct answer is I should learn to hone better before polishing my turds I call a razors edge. In the process of learning this I was looking at a Naniwa 12K an reading the description I read "needs lapped before use". "What in tarnation is lapped?" Which lead to the rabbit hole.

Some of you will prolly laugh/cry/call me dumb whatever. I never have lapped a hone in my life. I bought the 4k/8k setup an went to town sharpening razors. I played with an without tape, done this an that. (As stated before I always get a decent edge that is very shave worthy, sometimes getting a very very nice edge. Most of the time I have to hone every 4 months best edge went 6-8 months.)

Now I am sitting at the thought "I need to lap my stones bc I can only imagine what shape they are in from years of use." So after more reading an digging around I find out that I really need a 1k to set the bevel with, before I buy a 12K as stated by several posts in this forum a 1k N4k/8k setup is plenty if used properly with a good strop.

Now thought goes back too looking for a lapping stone, now I am thinking of a lapping stone that can preform double duty as a bevel setter as well. Since that's another stone I now think I need.


My question (finally I know) is can a dual sided 8" DMT350/1200 sever the purpose of lapping stones at the 350 level an setting the bevel at the 1200? Then as I grow us the DMT1200 as a finish stone for lapping my finer stones as I acquire more? Or should I just go with a trusted 8" DMT350 an Naniwa 1K for bevel setting? I am somewhat on a budget with this, Or I would prolly spring for Sharpton an Atoma stones.

Both options are close in price the dual sided stone or 2 separate stones.
I also have a nice TM strop on the way as well. (as my IL strop is very rough grain side up an the finished smooth side is has been scored an placed face down towards the canvas.)

Thanks for listening to my rambles,
Shifty

 

[stone and strop]

You can "lap" all your stones with 600 W/D sandpaper on a flat surface. It is economical and works great.
Lapping is dressing the stone to a good flatness. If it is dished too much it will adversely effect your honing. Draw pencil line grids across your stones and dress them till all the lines are gone then check with a straight edge.
You should be able to get good comfortable edges from your 8K.
If you want more going synthetic go with a Naniwa 10k or12k. Most prefer the 12k. Its a good easy to use hone and will bump up your edges considerably.

 

[shifty06]

Yeah I have read about the sandpaper trick but finding a backing is the issue for me I don't live near any home improvement stores, closest town that actually has anything is 60 miles away, its just easier if I order stuff (don't go to town that often an costs more in fuel then shipping ever does). I image that the stone is getting pretty dished I mean its been used a butt load id hate to say how many razors I have sharpened on it.


As far as ending on the N8K it works well for me I can get a pretty decent edge onit.

 

[stone and strop]

It doesn't have to be perfectly flat but the flatter it is the easier to get consistant results.
Countertop will work in a pinch, piece of glass, some tiles (check them all first)
Many diamond stones are not that flat even though they claim to be. You could use the 350/1200 if that's what you would like to do. Diamonds are a little aggressive for razors so most prefer 800-1000 grit Waterstones.
I figure if you saved money not buying the diamond stone you could use it for the Naniwa 12k.
If you can get the most from your 8k it is all you really need.
Many different ways to go!
Keeping your stones flat will help a lot.

 

[shifty06]

Awesome some ideas to think about! thanks!

 

[StuartT]

@shifty06...Sounds like you have a good handle on your sharpening skills. I agree with S&S that a 12k stone can produce a super fine edge and I encourage you to purchase one if you can. Beyond honing, it is my experience that my stropping technique is actually more important when it comes to fine tuning a razors edge. For example, I discovered early on that while stropping, I am inclined to slightly increase blade pressure on my return passes and the results are just OKAY. When I am careful about maintaining even pressure on both passes, the blade's edge is dramatically improved.

Best of luck to you and your new family.

 

[kohalajohn]

If you don't already have one, I would recommend getting a good quality square. And using it to regularly check that your stones are indeed flat. The pencil test is fine, but a good square is faster and more accurate.

wet/dry 400 grit sandpaper on a flat tile is a perfectly good lapper. Use your square to make sure your tile is flat before you buy it.

 

[Proinsias]

A little paste, spray or powder on leather, linen or balsa wood can be a cheap and easy way to further refine the edge. I've got my old Tony Miller paddle strop back out recently, freshened up the chromium oxide side, and it's a wonderful little tool. The chromium oxide powder is around 0.5 micron, 30k, but there is a huge selection of abrasives out there.

Stones are wonderful, Japanese naturals, coticules and all the rest, but just thinking if you have been happily shaving off the Norton 8K for years something as simple as a few strops on powder charged canvas may make a big difference.

 

[RayClem]

Since you have a newborn, it sounds like you are still a young man (at least compared to me, lol). As people age, their beards often become coarser and tougher, so older men may need a keener blade than a young man. Thus, acquiring the equipment and skills to produce an even better edge on your razors will serve you well over the long run. The Naniwa 12K stone is a good place to start, although you may want to venture into natural stones later as many of us have done.

I have a couple of Ralf Aust razors and I recommend them highly. It is my understanding that all Solingen razors, except perhaps for Revisor, are made from steel blanks from the same forge. Thus, the Dovo Bismark and the similar Aust model will be similar. However, Dovo is a large factory with different parts of the process being accomplished by different people while RA razors are the work of a single master craftsman from start to finish. I prefer the later.

At some point, you might want to consider pasted strops. Some people never use them and others use them religiously. After finishing my razors on either a 16K Shapton glass or a natural stone that is in the 12k-15K level, I like to polish my edges on pasted strops, even going down to the 0.125 micron level (about 160K grit level). That can give a super keen, super smooth edge that is difficult to achieve without these ultra-fine abrasives. However, everyone has their own criteria for what a razor edge should feel like, so experiment until you find what works best for you.

Although maintaining a straight razor is not quite as simple as changing the blade in a shavette, maintenance need not take a lot of time. When your razor is not smooth enough or keen enough for a great shave, just a couple of minutes of honing on a good finishing hone should return it to prime condition.

 

[steveclarkus]

Awesome some ideas to think about! thanks!

Don’t neglect this process. It is relatively inexpensive and produces phenomenal edges rather easily. I’ve been using it for months with great success:

Newbie Honing Compendium

 

[buca3152]

A slight shaving stroke greatly enhances a razors sharpness and edge longevity.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Lapping stone = no. Sandpaper. A whole sheet, fixed to a very flat surface, = yes. A polished marble sink cutout from a countertop would work nicely. A very thick. piece of glass (thinner glass flexes a LOT!) such as from a glass coffee table is good. Talking like 5/16" or thicker. The polished marble 12x12 floor tile is good. A 3/4" thick 12x12 piece of acrylic (TAP Plastics is a good source) is good.

You could save some money and go with 1u (one micron) lapping film instead of a 12k stone. The Naniwa 12k is good, though. I have one. I just prefer film, normally, for several reasons.

You can up your 8k game a lot, by lapping your stones and then after you have maxed out the edge on the 8k, use the lather trick. Wash your stone thoroughly and remove all swarf and slurry. Whip up some shave lather and apply generously to the 8k, and refresh as needed through the process. Begin honing normally and gradually lighten up on the pressure until it seems as though the razor is simply floating in a sea of lather and not even contacting the hone at all. GRADUALLY. Really stretch it out once you are down to just the weight of the razor. Do this while holding the stone in hand, for best results. It helps you to regulate your pressure. This takes at least a couple hundred laps to really nail it. If you really get it, your 8k will be giving you basically a 12k quality edge.

If you really want to fly with the eagles on a chicken budget, learn to hone via The Method. Read the whole thing, especially the lapping film thread and the pasted balsa thread. If you freestyle it or leave out steps or substitute stuff, it won't give you a Method edge. A proper Method edge, swept over the forearm 1/4" above the skin will easily treetop hair. The tips should simply fall over onto the razor and not jump away when cut. Is that the kind of sharp you are looking for?