Cartridge razor users Beware!

[engrsaks]

After reading this post, kindly skip to post# 10 by Jerry-built Hustler. He provided further clarification and corrected me on the referenced images used in this post.

Hello there gents,

Thanks for looking into my post. This time its more of a sharing information kind of post rather than inquiring or asking for help post. It might take a little reading and your valuable time but I think its worth it. Especially for those who are more into cartridge razor shaving.

A couple of months ago I went all in on wetshaving. After a lot of survey I was able to find myself a shavette and blades
(but those were counterfeit and became the main reason for switching to cartridge razors).

As the stubble became more coarse, I found it difficult to get a quality shave without spending too much time infront of mirror. Later, I brought in a DE safety razor and got myself a quick shave BBS shave. But it was kind of painful because once again the blades were counterfeit . I surveyed a lot and finally realized that the poor DE market was intensional. P&G rules here and I am not joking.

So for experimental purposes, I bought myself a gillette fusion proglide. I have to admit I was pretty scared before taking the first pass. A monster face packed with five shiny blades ready to chew on my skin. But it all went very smooth and well.I got my BBS shave done in no time. I was happy and became instant fan of cartridge shaving.

The first difference that I noticed between DE and cart shaving (which I unfortunately ignored) was the blade cutting sound. The DE blades always gave me a prominent slicing off hair sound. On the other hand, cart gave me a rubbing sound as I took my first pass. It didn't take me long to realize that my hair regrowth rate significantly increased. After just 4 hours I had this scratchy skin again (never happened with DE even with counterfeit blades). It was kind of a shock for me. Why on earth the cart BBS shave is not lasting long enough like DE?

But that is not the whole story. One more thing that I noticed was that whenever I felt my face to inspect my stubble, it irritated me like hell and stubble pattern never felt fine like it used to with DE shaves. I realized that I am getting quick results by carts but at expense of something which could create skin issues. I asked around the B&B forum about hair regrowth rate but was not convinced by the explanation provided.

Since I am an engineer, I like to see things from scientific perspective. I started googling around looking for DE and cart shaving results under microscope. And just then I stumbled across a link which was no less than a horror movie.
The rubbing sound which I ignored in my earlier shaves with cart was the sign of hair being sliced and then being "ripped off" and finally being "forced to bury" under my skin. It also explained, why I always felt irritated when trying to feel my stubble and why my beard regrowth dramatically increased. It was all part of the "healing" process.

Following are the two images (credits to go imgur.com)

First is the result of fresh DE shave under microscope. You can clearly see the symmetry and well cut hair tips




Next we have the results of fresh cart shave under microscope



This also explains why ingrown hair complaints are increasing amongst the cart shavers. As shown in the following image having pretty similar pattern of stubble as the cart razor one



After figuring this all out, I have decided to quit shaving with carts. It may give fast results but its just not worth it. I am switching back to DE and thats always what will go for me.

As for my fellow forum members, Its your decision to make. And if you get the same signs with carts after shaving, please reconsider your razor.



thanks to all and happy shaving

 

[Quigg]

OMG! I have had similar results, but never knew the scientific reason until now. I will limit my cartridge shaves even more now. Thanks for sharing this.

 

[Wallander]

This reinforces my decision to switch to DE's. One of the best decisions I've made. Thank you for posting this.

 

[GKC1]

For me, the opposite is true...I get closer shaves with no irritation, cuts, or ingrown hairs from a Mach 3 or Fusion. If I don't shave for several days, I find it much easier to reduce my beard with a DE and then do a final pass with a cartridge razor to clean up the problem areas on my neck and around my lips and under my nose.

I've always thought I had sensitive skin, but after reading so many stories here about irritation and ingrown hairs, I must not. I do have a heavy beard, and it does grow in every direction, especially on my neck, so getting my neck area smooth is always a challenge. Recently I've read some comments from others that they don't try for a BBS shave on their necks...just a clean shave without visible stubble. Since no one rubs my neck but me and (not as often as I'd like) my wife, I'm not pursuing anything other than a smooth shave on my neck. I can feel some stubble there after shaving, but not much and it's not visible...and it's going to grow back out anyway.

My main objection to carts is the cost...if Mach 3 carts were the same price as DE blades, they would be my first choice. I just get mad when I buy them, though, because the price is just ridiculous and the whole time I am shaving, I am fuming about the price and worrying about how long I can make the cart last. With a DE blade for beard reduction and a generic Trac II blade for the final pass around the problem areas (lips and under nose) plus any patches remaining, I can get a satisfactory shave. I buy the Trac II carts at Family Dollar for $2 for a pack of 10...and they last a good while since I am mainly using them for clean up.

 

[Ceri]

Quick BBS? You should cherish your 'mirror time'. I've always had trouble switching off, but I find my morning shave a wonderfully clarifying experience. When I've steel against my skin' my entire focus is on the blade, I certainly don't worry about how others shave. Then again, I'm no scientist, tho I may be a bit of a hippie

 

[engrsaks]

For me, the opposite is true...I get closer shaves with no irritation, cuts, or ingrown hairs from a Mach 3 or Fusion. If I don't shave for several days, I find it much easier to reduce my beard with a DE and then do a final pass with a cartridge razor to clean up the problem areas on my neck and around my lips and under my nose.

I've always thought I had sensitive skin, but after reading so many stories here about irritation and ingrown hairs, I must not. I do have a heavy beard, and it does grow in every direction, especially on my neck, so getting my neck area smooth is always a challenge. Recently I've read some comments from others that they don't try for a BBS shave on their necks...just a clean shave without visible stubble. Since no one rubs my neck but me and (not as often as I'd like) my wife, I'm not pursuing anything other than a smooth shave on my neck. I can feel some stubble there after shaving, but not much and it's not visible...and it's going to grow back out anyway.

My main objection to carts is the cost...if Mach 3 carts were the same price as DE blades, they would be my first choice. I just get mad when I buy them, though, because the price is just ridiculous and the whole time I am shaving, I am fuming about the price and worrying about how long I can make the cart last. With a DE blade for beard reduction and a generic Trac II blade for the final pass around the problem areas (lips and under nose) plus any patches remaining, I can get a satisfactory shave. I buy the Trac II carts at Family Dollar for $2 for a pack of 10...and they last a good while since I am mainly using them for clean up.

Well that is good to hear. If carts suit you well then there really is no need to reconsider anything.

 

[engrsaks]

Quick BBS? You should cherish your 'mirror time'. I've always had trouble switching off, but I find my morning shave a wonderfully clarifying experience. When I've steel against my skin' my entire focus is on the blade, I certainly don't worry about how others shave. Then again, I'm no scientist, tho I may be a bit of a hippie

Oh yes that one part is giving out a wrong image of my daily shaving ritual. For me a quick BBS is the one that I get in about 20 minutes. I never wish to spend lesser time on shave than 15 minutes. It just doesn't refresh me.

 

[GKC1]

Well that is good to hear. If carts suit you well then there really is no need to reconsider anything.

Carts give me a good shave, but the price of Mach 3 and Fusion carts doesn't suit me at all.

 

[Eeyore]

I buy the Trac II carts at Family Dollar for $2 for a pack of 10...and they last a good while since I am mainly using them for clean up.

And then you complain about costs??

DE blades are more expensive here in brick and mortar stores.

 

[Jerry-built Hustler]

First is the result of fresh DE shave under microscope. You can clearly see the symmetry and well cut hair tips

Next we have the results of fresh cart shave under microscope

I was confused by the first two pictures until I did some digging, and came across the original posting of the pictures on Reddit. It turns out, BOTH pictures show Mach 3 and DE edges. What the person did was shave himself with a DE, wait a few days, then shave himself with a Mach 3. He then examined the cuttings remaining in the razor after the second shave. He then did the experiment in reverse - shaving himself with a Mach 3, waiting a few days, then shaving with a DE, and examining the cuttings.

The important point in this is that the cuttings remaining in the razor have a cut from a Mach 3 on one end, and a cut from a DE on the other. The cleaner edge is from the DE; the ragged edge is from the Mach 3. It is not correct to say the first picture shows a DE cut, and the second shot shows the Mach 3 cut. Both pictures you show (not including the razor burn shot) show cuttings from the second experiment. The original photographer explains it pretty well. I recommend people read his post.

None of this changes what you're saying: the pictures suggest the DE cuts more evenly and cleanly than the multi-blade cartridge. However, without further clarification of what the photos are actually showing, some readers might be misled by your explanation. That said, thanks for addressing this issue. It definitely taught me something.

 

[bakerbarber]

Tl/dr

 

[Mr Daniel]

I learned this morning (you may have seen my post) that my face handles cartridge shaving well, at least with the cartridge I used this morning. The blades were spaced out more than on a mach 3 and especially more than on a fusion. This gives the hair more time to spring back up so it doesn't go underneath the skin due to being cut 5 times simultaneously. This is why so many love the trac 2, atra and gillette sensor so much. I will continue to do both.

My dad used a mach 3 razor every day since it came out and a gillette sensor before that. His skin looked great and and he never had issues with ingrown hair. He also had a very thick, full beard like me.

 

[Jerry-built Hustler]

Tl/dr

Your loss, dude.

 

[SmurfK]

Sorry, mate, but it looks exactly how someone is trying to prove me that God exists.
Taking two random pictures from the internet and comparing them one to each other does not seems too scientific. Actually it's very hard to do this kind of experiment. You need to have exactly the same growth, exactly the same pattern, exactly the same hair diameter, so yea, i'm guessing it's pretty much impossible.

Also, multi-blade systems are designed to work different than single blade. You can't go taking three passes with them. If you are shaving with something with 5 blades, is like you would do 15 passes with DE. Try that and let's see if you won't get irritated. Multi-blades are meant to be used in only one pass.

Hair regrowth rate, again. You might feel that it's growing faster when you use cart. I actually feel exactly the opposite. But we might both be wrong, as the growth rate might vary from more aspects, most of them not including what blade did you used. Sleep, stress, alimentation, all of them contribute to how fast your hairs will grow.

In all those discussions about "DE is better than carts", i see all the wrong reasons presented. Price argument never stood up with me, as it's bad interpreted. All discussions are about Mach 3, Fusion or Pro Glide, but there are cheaper alternatives, that does not necessary have to be called Gillette, that might get you even cheaper than using DE blades. The "better for your skin" one, again, no one is stopping anyone from using better prep and products with carts. Also, i don't see what's so harmful about canned things. Chemically, almost nothing, as long as you use it as you would supposed and you don't spray it in your mouth for long periods of time. The only thing that i believe in and i did not saw mentioned too often, is the thing that DE shaving can be more hygienic than shaving with carts. You usually replace the blade more often, the design makes the razor easier to clean. Other than that, i honestly think that people are just trying to find a justification for using a method of shaving instead of another.

For me, shaving with DE razor is fun. That's about all there is. I can obtain better results with Mach 3, but it's more fun with DE razor.

 

[sub vet]

No problem from TraC II carts from Personna, not brave enough to try the bargain store brands. I do have problems with pivoting carts and I'm guessing they present both the wrong blade angle and allow the blade angle to change according to varying drag from changing hair patterns around my face and neck. I'll continue to use Trac II partly because I have a medical issue that makes them safer and partly because I get very good shaves, even consistent DFS one pass shaves.

 

[Jerry-built Hustler]

Taking two random pictures from the internet and comparing them one to each other does not seems too scientific.

Agreed. I think the OP does a disservice to the original photographer by abstracting the pictures from their context, and ultimately misrepresenting what they show. The Reddit post explains them a lot better. I suggest the OP add a link to Reddit post in his original post in this thread, so that those who don't read the entire thread (i.e., don't see my link to it, above) might still see it.

The Reddit post still doesn't prove anything conclusively. It's just more data to consider. But it's interesting, well explained data, which unfortunately got lost in translation in this thread.

 

[engrsaks]

I was confused by the first two pictures until I did some digging, and came across the original posting of the pictures on Reddit. It turns out, BOTH pictures show Mach 3 and DE edges. What the person did was shave himself with a DE, wait a few days, then shave himself with a Mach 3. He then examined the cuttings remaining in the razor after the second shave. He then did the experiment in reverse - shaving himself with a Mach 3, waiting a few days, then shaving with a DE, and examining the cuttings.

The important point in this is that the cuttings remaining in the razor have a cut from a Mach 3 on one end, and a cut from a DE on the other. The cleaner edge is from the DE; the ragged edge is from the Mach 3. It is not correct to say the first picture shows a DE cut, and the second shot shows the Mach 3 cut. Both pictures you show (not including the razor burn shot) show cuttings from the second experiment. The original photographer explains it pretty well. I recommend people read his post.

None of this changes what you're saying: the pictures suggest the DE cuts more evenly and cleanly than the multi-blade cartridge. However, without further clarification of what the photos are actually showing, some readers might be misled by your explanation. That said, thanks for addressing this issue. It definitely taught me something.

Thanks for correcting me up. I stumbled across imgur.com first instead of reddit due to direct image search. But still, didn't I arrive at the same conclusion as the person who performed the experiment did? In the end of his post he also complained about the same thing. Uneven cuts and ingrown hairs.
Anyway, the main reason I posted it up here was to get inputs from experienced users in case of I am wrong. Once again thanks for correcting me up.

 

[Jerry-built Hustler]

But still, didn't I arrive at the same conclusion as the person who performed the experiment did?

Yes, and I did say that at the end of my post. However, the reason I was confused was because I was looking at the first photo, which you said only showed DE-cut edges, and thought, "Some of those edges look almost as bad as those in the second picture. So why is the DE offering a better cut?" Some others might think the same thing. I think it's important to note that both pictures show edges from both razors.

 

[Shiloh]

Sorry, mate, but
[snip]
Also, multi-blade systems are designed to work different than single blade. You can't go taking three passes with them. If you are shaving with something with 5 blades, is like you would do 15 passes with DE. Try that and let's see if you won't get irritated. Multi-blades are meant to be used in only one pass.
[snip]
For me, shaving with DE razor is fun. That's about all there is. I can obtain better results with Mach 3, but it's more fun with DE razor.

On first point above: When I used a Mach3 (may it rest in peace), I always did 2 passes, one WTG and one ATG -- just like I did with my injector razor before I switched to carts. Just because...always did it that way -- and didn't know all the nuances about shaving from participating on B&B (it amazes me how little I knew...surprised I survived at all...). That's probably why I was plagued with ingrowns.

On the second point above: You nailed it!! -- although -- considering the overall ritual/experience with "real shaving" -- I would disagree about getting "better results" with a Mach3.

 

[engrsaks]

Yes, and I did say that at the end of my post. However, the reason I was confused was because I was looking at the first photo, which you said only showed DE-cut edges, and thought, "Some of those edges look almost as bad as those in the second picture. So why is the DE offering a better cut?" Some others might think the same thing. I think it's important to note that both pictures show edges from both razors.

Well, once again thanks for saving me up here. If you hadn't corrected me, I would have misled the fellow members here and really would have given out a bad image about myself as sworn cartridge enemy trying to deceive and lure gents into DE business.