Can’t get a close, comfortable shave

[Rfm]

Hi All.

I’ve recently moved to DE shaving - maybe 6 weeks ago, and I cannot seem to get a good shave. Things are incrementally getting better, I’m not aiming for BBS, but I can’t even get close to an acceptable shave. I have mildly sensitive skin, so currently do two passes with a Merkur Progress (usually settings 1.5 and 2), all WTG. I’ve experimented with a few blades, and Feather has come closest, with Voskhod second, although feather has given me a ton of weepers. Astra, Gillette Platinum and Perma Sharp all struggled to cut through my coarse hair, even though people say perms sharp is extremely sharp. In terms of prep, I soften the hair with hot water, use a pre-shave oil and leave the lather on for a bit. Apart from the feather, most of my shaves leave me with sandpaper stubble and irritation. I’ve focused on angle, short strokes etc. Still no luck. Sorry for the long post, just at a loss as to where I can make an improvement. Any help appreciated, thanks.

 

[Phoenixkh]

Hi All.

I’ve recently moved to DE shaving - maybe 6 weeks ago, and I cannot seem to get a good shave. Things are incrementally getting better, I’m not aiming for BBS, but I can’t even get close to an acceptable shave. I have mildly sensitive skin, so currently do two passes with a Merkur Progress (usually settings 1.5 and 2), all WTG. I’ve experimented with a few blades, and Feather has come closest, with Voskhod second, although feather has given me a ton of weepers. Astra, Gillette Platinum and Perma Sharp all struggled to cut through my coarse hair, even though people say perms sharp is extremely sharp. In terms of prep, I soften the hair with hot water, use a pre-shave oil and leave the lather on for a bit. Apart from the feather, most of my shaves leave me with sandpaper stubble and irritation. I’ve focused on angle, short strokes etc. Still no luck. Sorry for the long post, just at a loss as to where I can make an improvement. Any help appreciated, thanks.

If you use light pressure, you can start to teach yourself the Across the Grain and Against the Grain passes. I know, with my old man whiskers, I'd never get a shave with which I was content only shaving With the Grain. I have skin issues as well due to psoriatic arthritis, so I use unscented soaps and a light touch. I do the WTG pass, XTG passes in both directions and follow up with an ATG pass and any touch-ups I need in my problem areas... that is mostly in the chin area and sometimes, a few spots on my neck. I lather again before each pass and/or touch-up.

I don't know what pre-shave oil you are using. In my view, they are not created equal. I use the PAA Cube and Tube 2.0. They are just soap but soften up my old man whiskers well. I have a few other nice pre-shaves that also work well. I do shower first and wash my face with a gentle facial soap and also the Cube 2.0... twice.. I also use the Cube 2.0 melted into a soap locker and use a brush to apply it before I lather up my shaving soap. I lather on the Cube 2.0 first... then while it is doing its job, I make the lather for the shave (I bowl lather, but lots of other people prefer to face lather)... giving my whiskers every chance to soften up. There is no single correct way to do skin prep or to shave. You'll develop your own routine as time goes on, but that's what I came to after a lot of experimenting.

All this... and I don't know your location. If you are in the States, PAA is readily available... if you are in the UK or Europe... that might not be the case.

 

[Goblin]

Sorry for the long post, just at a loss as to where I can make an improvement.

No, this is excellent. Often people just describe their problems but say nothing about their gear or routine, and without that information it's very difficult to offer advice. Some thoughts / queries:

1) How often are you shaving?
2) How many shaves have you completed?

I cannot seem to get a good shave. Things are incrementally getting better, I’m not aiming for BBS, but I can’t even get close to an acceptable shave. I have mildly sensitive skin, so currently do two passes with a Merkur Progress (usually settings 1.5 and 2), all WTG.

3) WTG passes by themselves are not going to get you very close with your razor on a low setting. That's fine. At the start, the best thing to do is aim for comfortable shaves, then worry about getting closer.
4) It's good that things are getting incrementally better - that's what we expect! You need to build muscle memory and it takes a while. Honestly it sounds like you are doing well overall. 6 weeks ain't that long - it took me longer than that to start getting good shaves.
5) If you want to get a bit closer going WTG only, without adding XTG or ATG passes, you could try turning the razor up a notch.

I soften the hair with hot water, use a pre-shave oil and leave the lather on for a bit. Apart from the feather, most of my shaves leave me with sandpaper stubble and irritation.

6) Can you tell us how long you are softening the hair for? It sounds like you benefit from the sharpness of the Feather, but if the hair isn't completely softened that can make a difference too. I am a big advocate of getting the beard completely saturated. When I was learning, it was the thing that made the biggest difference for me in terms of getting a good and comfortable shave.

I’ve focused on angle, short strokes etc.

7) That sounds good. Keep at it! The biggest problem new shavers have is maintaining an efficient angle, then when their angle wanders, they compensate by adding pressure to get the razor to shave, which causes all the usual problems of cuts and irritation. If you don't already do it, try to fine tune the angles by pivoting down from the cap, rather than just trying to place the razor immediately at what you think is the right angle. When you hit the optimum angle for the razor, you will know it - it will feel smooth and efficient:

 

[psfred]

I shower before I shave as a general rule. 10 min hot water soak does wonders for softening up the beard.

I cannot get a good shave WTG except with a newly honed and very sharp straight razor, and that's with a lot of skin irritation. Been shaving ATG almost exclusively since 1975.

Razor angle is important -- you must have the edge of the blade in contact with your skin in order to get a good shave, and if it's "flying" above, the razor is going to pull terribly since it's splitting the hair long way instead of cutting it off at skin level. Not pleasant, and leave plenty of sharp, pointy stubble too.

Too much pressure and you scrape the skin, too little and the blade lifts, you will have to figure out what works with your razor and blades as they all vary a bit. You will know when you hit the magic combination, as the razor will slide over your skin while slicing off the hair at the base.

The other consideration is hair growth angle -- no one has beard hair that grows exactly perpendicular to the skin on at least some areas of the face, and you should "map" the growth angle. My beard grows out nearly flat on the skin on my cheeks at about a 15 degree angle to straight downward, but the beard under my jaw grows out at a pretty flat angle from right to left, and at my Adam's Apple grows out straight up.

So I shave in a bunch of different directions -- on the first pass from chin straight up to my moustashe (sp), from the corner of my chin toward my ear, and sideways under the jaw line except under my ears where I go sideways.

Second pass is straight down at the base of my neck rather than sideways and vertical on my cheeks, about a 45 degree angle under my chin. This seems to hit all the hair at the base, and I get good to excellent shaves.

Ideally you want the razor to cut the hair at an angle that keeps the skin side bevel of the blade a few degrees above perfectly perpendicular (so the hair won't stick to the bottom bevel). That way the blade cuts the shortest cross section with the least drag. Not always possible, especially for hair like mine that grows out flat, but the closer the better.

I suspect you may need to open up that razor some -- too little blade exposure will prevent the edge from sliding directly on the skin, and if it doesn't you can shave all day and not get a smooth face. Go one small step at a time, and use very little pressure on the razor while experimenting with direction and angle.

You'll get there, it takes a little practice. Cartridge razors do all the "technique" for you since they are wide and usually pivoted so the angle is set by the plastic carrier. With DEs you have to manage all that yourself, with the advantage of getting smooth, very close, comfortable shaves when you figure it out.

 

[Frito Ray]

…Things are incrementally getting better…

This is the most important point.

You seem to be doing things correctly, and have done your research, you just need a little more time.

Your razor and blades are fine and until you get the hang of it, it’s pointless to go looking for the magic combination yet.

Be kind to your skin and give it a chance to heal between shaves; avoid daily shaving if possible and/or limit the number of passes until you develop muscle memory. Accept a presentable shave for now.

One thing you can do as a beginner is to lookout for skin reactions to different soaps, creams, aftershaves, etc. Chemical irritation can be as bad as a mechanical one.

 

[cvac]

Feather are very sharp blades and unforgiving of any technique issue. If you get nicks and cuts using them, try a different blade for awhile and pay very careful attention to your technique.

Re: getting a close shave. I would settle for DFS rather than BBS when you are learning. When you get better technique, you can try WTG + XTG which should give a nice shave overall that is plenty close enough. I don't recommend ATG for most people. I never do it myself anymore.

 

[BigJ]

Great advice above!

I re-emphasize:
1. Good prep.
2. Proper razor angle.
3. NO pressure.

Keep at this and you will get the results you want.

 

[Eben Stone]

Lots of great advice already given.

You might need to do more skin stretching.

Try turning that Progress up a notch.

 

[Submariner]

I never get a close shave with WTG only shaving either. Not with DE or a cartridge. All of the above comments are good. I would encourage you to shave ATG after a WTG pass with your milder setting on your razor and a light touch. Avoid the very sharp Feather blades for now. Your Gillette Platinum would work very well for this.

 

[DesertIguana]

Well other B n B Member gave you ideas to get shave you seek.

Now you have to try ideas, practice is what you need.

Shaving with DE is like learning to play a sport, become good take two things.

Practice and time.

 

[euro]

DE Shaving isn't difficult, it's easy to get a BBS I would suggest you to map your beard out. I'm a hardcore feather user and usually after the XTG I already have a BBS. I would suggest you to do a WTG and an XTG followed up with touch ups. Razor burns are caused by a dull blade or too much pressure, the Feathers are one of the sharpest blades available so my guess is you're using too much pressure. Don't use pressure just let the razor do it's work. You can do a WTG only but don't expect a DTF, the magic happens with the XTG and ATG.

Forgot your prep method, instead take a very hot shower before you go to shave. If you have olive oil or any other edible oil use that as a pre-shave oil. So you apply it on your face then apply the lather and shave.

 

[StubbleTrouble]

Think of this a a journey, which will award you with milestones. Never mind the race to BBS, et cetera, et cetera. Just know that with practice, time, and resources like this, you are going to get there. The days of "horror shaves" will quickly subside and will be replaced with enjoying shaving, which will simply augment itself over time. The really great part is that the enjoyment and accomplishment parts just don't go away. You'll never forget how bad it used to be, which will be a constant reminder of what you've accomplished. It is truly a ritual.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Hi All.

I’ve recently moved to DE shaving - maybe 6 weeks ago, and I cannot seem to get a good shave. Things are incrementally getting better, I’m not aiming for BBS, but I can’t even get close to an acceptable shave. I have mildly sensitive skin, so currently do two passes with a Merkur Progress (usually settings 1.5 and 2), all WTG. I’ve experimented with a few blades, and Feather has come closest, with Voskhod second, although feather has given me a ton of weepers. Astra, Gillette Platinum and Perma Sharp all struggled to cut through my coarse hair, even though people say perms sharp is extremely sharp. In terms of prep, I soften the hair with hot water, use a pre-shave oil and leave the lather on for a bit. Apart from the feather, most of my shaves leave me with sandpaper stubble and irritation. I’ve focused on angle, short strokes etc. Still no luck. Sorry for the long post, just at a loss as to where I can make an improvement. Any help appreciated, thanks.

As your lather and angle improves, those blades that don't currently work for you, are going to start feeling a lot sharper.

Have a read through this guide (specifically the first four posts) and see if anything unlocks a few improvements for you.

The Wanderer's Guide To DE Shaving

Part One I was self taught with a DE razor 25 years ago, and had to figure out a lot of things the hard way. I learned a lot of things over the years, but wish there had been an experienced DE shaver who could have taught me the basics early on. This guide is offered so that you can get to...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[Ron R]

I suggest you map your beard grain direction, it is so important for comfortable shaves with less irritations, beard mapping will help you also as your technique matures(not sure if you mentioned you beard mapped already). It might others who have not beard mapped also.
Some folks can not shave ATG because of sensitive skin, keep trying & it will turn for the better in your shaving IMO.
You have a proven excellent razor also (Merkur progress adjustable.). If you are not getting a close shave you might have to increase your setting on the adjustable for a little more blade feel or blade exposure will get closer results possibly.
(Old archived photo of a beard map.)

Have some great shaves!

 

[Island]

I would agree with proper prep, proper angle, and light touch being crucial. But without doing against the grain passes, a really close shave is difficult. You can come close with certain razors like the blackbird ti or timeless .95 sb, but you need a very sharp blade. People say the razor doesn't matter that much if you have good technique, but I disagree. A mild razor like the Overlander used against the grain works even if your technique is fair. I've had some razors where I need to go over areas several times to get a decent shave. You may not have found the right blade and razor for your skin and beard.

 

[Rfm]

Tha

If you use light pressure, you can start to teach yourself the Across the Grain and Against the Grain passes. I know, with my old man whiskers, I'd never get a shave with which I was content only shaving With the Grain. I have skin issues as well due to psoriatic arthritis, so I use unscented soaps and a light touch. I do the WTG pass, XTG passes in both directions and follow up with an ATG pass and any touch-ups I need in my problem areas... that is mostly in the chin area and sometimes, a few spots on my neck. I lather again before each pass and/or touch-up.

I don't know what pre-shave oil you are using. In my view, they are not created equal. I use the PAA Cube and Tube 2.0. They are just soap but soften up my old man whiskers well. I have a few other nice pre-shaves that also work well. I do shower first and wash my face with a gentle facial soap and also the Cube 2.0... twice.. I also use the Cube 2.0 melted into a soap locker and use a brush to apply it before I lather up my shaving soap. I lather on the Cube 2.0 first... then while it is doing its job, I make the lather for the shave (I bowl lather, but lots of other people prefer to face lather)... giving my whiskers every chance to soften up. There is no single correct way to do skin prep or to shave. You'll develop your own routine as time goes on, but that's what I came to after a lot of experimenting.

All this... and I don't know your location. If you are in the States, PAA is readily available... if you are in the UK or Europe... that might not be the case.

Thanks. This is great advice. I’ll look for the cube, I’m not in America but we can get most things on Amazon here.

 

[Rfm]

No, this is excellent. Often people just describe their problems but say nothing about their gear or routine, and without that information it's very difficult to offer advice. Some thoughts / queries:

1) How often are you shaving?
2) How many shaves have you completed?



3) WTG passes by themselves are not going to get you very close with your razor on a low setting. That's fine. At the start, the best thing to do is aim for comfortable shaves, then worry about getting closer.
4) It's good that things are getting incrementally better - that's what we expect! You need to build muscle memory and it takes a while. Honestly it sounds like you are doing well overall. 6 weeks ain't that long - it took me longer than that to start getting good shaves.
5) If you want to get a bit closer going WTG only, without adding XTG or ATG passes, you could try turning the razor up a notch.



6) Can you tell us how long you are softening the hair for? It sounds like you benefit from the sharpness of the Feather, but if the hair isn't completely softened that can make a difference too. I am a big advocate of getting the beard completely saturated. When I was learning, it was the thing that made the biggest difference for me in terms of getting a good and comfortable shave.



7) That sounds good. Keep at it! The biggest problem new shavers have is maintaining an efficient angle, then when their angle wanders, they compensate by adding pressure to get the razor to shave, which causes all the usual problems of cuts and irritation. If you don't already do it, try to fine tune the angles by pivoting down from the cap, rather than just trying to place the razor immediately at what you think is the right angle. When you hit the optimum angle for the razor, you will know it - it will feel smooth and efficient:

View attachment 1751879

To answer your questions 1.) I shave every evening so that things can calm down before work the next day. 2.) I’d say about 50 recently, but I took a long break from when I was in my 20’s until now. Just never enjoyed it. Recently had the desire to start again. 3,4,5) Thanks, I think I’m going to try XTG with a blade milder than a feather, last time so tried with a feather it was quite irritating. 7.)I really struggle to get good angle under my chin, always feels like tugging. Will keep at it.

Thanks for the long reply and info!

 

[Rfm]

I shower before I shave as a general rule. 10 min hot water soak does wonders for softening up the beard.

I cannot get a good shave WTG except with a newly honed and very sharp straight razor, and that's with a lot of skin irritation. Been shaving ATG almost exclusively since 1975.

Razor angle is important -- you must have the edge of the blade in contact with your skin in order to get a good shave, and if it's "flying" above, the razor is going to pull terribly since it's splitting the hair long way instead of cutting it off at skin level. Not pleasant, and leave plenty of sharp, pointy stubble too.

Too much pressure and you scrape the skin, too little and the blade lifts, you will have to figure out what works with your razor and blades as they all vary a bit. You will know when you hit the magic combination, as the razor will slide over your skin while slicing off the hair at the base.

The other consideration is hair growth angle -- no one has beard hair that grows exactly perpendicular to the skin on at least some areas of the face, and you should "map" the growth angle. My beard grows out nearly flat on the skin on my cheeks at about a 15 degree angle to straight downward, but the beard under my jaw grows out at a pretty flat angle from right to left, and at my Adam's Apple grows out straight up.

So I shave in a bunch of different directions -- on the first pass from chin straight up to my moustashe (sp), from the corner of my chin toward my ear, and sideways under the jaw line except under my ears where I go sideways.

Second pass is straight down at the base of my neck rather than sideways and vertical on my cheeks, about a 45 degree angle under my chin. This seems to hit all the hair at the base, and I get good to excellent shaves.

Ideally you want the razor to cut the hair at an angle that keeps the skin side bevel of the blade a few degrees above perfectly perpendicular (so the hair won't stick to the bottom bevel). That way the blade cuts the shortest cross section with the least drag. Not always possible, especially for hair like mine that grows out flat, but the closer the better.

I suspect you may need to open up that razor some -- too little blade exposure will prevent the edge from sliding directly on the skin, and if it doesn't you can shave all day and not get a smooth face. Go one small step at a time, and use very little pressure on the razor while experimenting with direction and angle.

You'll get there, it takes a little practice. Cartridge razors do all the "technique" for you since they are wide and usually pivoted so the angle is set by the plastic carrier. With DEs you have to manage all that yourself, with the advantage of getting smooth, very close, comfortable shaves when you figure it out.

Thanks, this is good info. Any experience with adjustable settings? I’m scared to go past 3

 

[Rfm]

This is the most important point.

You seem to be doing things correctly, and have done your research, you just need a little more time.

Your razor and blades are fine and until you get the hang of it, it’s pointless to go looking for the magic combination yet.

Be kind to your skin and give it a chance to heal between shaves; avoid daily shaving if possible and/or limit the number of passes until you develop muscle memory. Accept a presentable shave for now.

One thing you can do as a beginner is to lookout for skin reactions to different soaps, creams, aftershaves, etc. Chemical irritation can be as bad as a mechanical one.

On the back of your advice I tried a spot test of my shaving soap (barrister and man) and it’s causing a reaction. Leaves my skin red and with a sunburn feeling for a few hours after a shave. I’ve never been allergic to anything on my skin, so it’s quite odd. It’s either that or the soap is too alkaline and causing irritation. Not sure. Will have to find a new soap. Other variable to rule out is irritation from the brush, though I imagine it’s the soap.

 

[Rfm]

Feather are very sharp blades and unforgiving of any technique issue. If you get nicks and cuts using them, try a different blade for awhile and pay very careful attention to your technique.

Re: getting a close shave. I would settle for DFS rather than BBS when you are learning. When you get better technique, you can try WTG + XTG which should give a nice shave overall that is plenty close enough. I don't recommend ATG for most people. I never do it myself anymore.

I can’t to ATG, too many ingrown! Will try a mild blade XTG.