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BOTOC Darwin Pass Around - Reviews Thread

Good evening folks! Connie (username Intrigued) has graciously agreed to a small pass around of her treasured Darwin Standard, to collect some reviews of this interesting, and increasingly expensive semi-open combed razor. In addition, she has asked that I also review her Darwin Deluxe and do a bit of a comparison between the two.

I'll be kicking this off with my initial thoughts on these after a couple of shaves with each, then I'll be following up with more shaves for another couple of weeks to get a good feel for any differences or similarities between them. After I'm done, I'll be sending the Deluxe back to Connie so her poor hubby can get back to shaving with it! The Standard will be going on to:

bluebishop - Ken
kingfisher - Randall
jbradley - Johnnie
GDCarrinton - Gary
syngent - James

We'll use this thread to collect up all of the reviews. So, without further ado, let's take a look...

The Razors:

$candy shot.jpg

Standard on the left - Deluxe on the right.

When I received these last week, I was a bit in shock when I opened them. The finish, particularly on the Deluxe was just excellent. I couldn't believe something from the 30's or 40's could have plating this good. This was like new Muhle R41 level plating here. What I didn't realize (but should have... I just hadn't been paying enough attention in the BOTOC thread) was that these razors are not plated. They're basically a polished stainless steel, but more specifically a cobalt steel. Darwin LTD was a machine tool steel company (amoung other things), and they apparently fashioned these razors out of one of their cobalt steels. Cobalt steels are used in machining applications because they maintain hardness, even at high temperatures, and have some good wear charaterstics. So why make razors out of this stuff? That's a good question. There wouldn't be much reason to do so, as there are other less expensive steels formulated with a focus on corrosion resistance that would be cheaper, and easier to work with. I'm guessing here, but I suspect that these might have been giveaways for sales of their tool steels , or some other sort of promotion items. I happen to have two metalurgists in my family, both interested in these razors and their composition. With the help of a cobalt steel/alloy expert we know, we're going to see if we can figure out what sort of composition these might be, as well as some more history on the razors. In any case, as you can see, they're gorgeous :). If only Gillette had made their razors out of stainless!

Fit and Finish
As mentioned, the surface finish on these is excellent, with the Deluxe having been either more finely polished to begin with, or possible just not having seen as much wear. I'm pretty sure the standard would polish up just as well with some polishing compound, and some elbow grease.

Here's a shot of them broken down.

$both.jpg
The standard is on the left; deluxe on the right. The standard has the more traditional bullets on the cap, that protrude through the baseplate. The deluxe is the reverse of that with studs on the baseplate, protruding up through the cap.

$handles.jpg
Both models are threaded on the handle, instead of having a threaded screw on the cap. The handles look like they've been turned from bar stock, then grinded in various way to create the details.

In terms of overall build quality, there are some inconsistencies. In fact, I'm seeing evidence that these razors had some amount of hand work vs a completely automated factory production. The heads look like they were cast with the holes, bullets and combs I think partially done by hand, with some room for error. The standard in particular is a bit sloppy.

Here's a shot of the baseplate of the standard. Note that the holes themselves are bit out of round, and they are not positioned uniformly relative to the sides of the cap. This mispositioning of the holes, makes the cap not line up with the baseplate properly. This affects the blade a little in that it's shifted a bit to one side, and two opposite corners of the blade have a little bit of extra gap underneath because of the shape of the baseplate. It's not made much difference to the shaves however, as far as I can tell.

$cap issues.jpg

Another build issue with the standard is that the comb teeth have some flaws. Here's a picture showing the issue:
$teeth issue.jpg
If you look at the second and third teeth in from the left, you'll see that they're both thinner and shorter than the rest of the teeth.

BAH! I only seem to be able to attach 5 pictures per post, so I'll continue in the next post with the rest of the review.
 
Continued from post 1....

Interestingly, the same problem is seen on the other side as well (although not quite as bad) in the same relative positions. This makes me think that the head is cast without the teeth/comb and then a machining process was used to create the comb. I'm just guessing here, but I suspect when this razor was made, there was problem with the grinding surface where those defective teeth are located, thus the problem appears on both sides of the head.
$othe side teeth issue.jpg
Other side of the Standard baseplate with similar problem.


The deluxe on the other hand seems to be in much better shape. The cap lines up perfectly with the baseplate, and the blade fits perfectly. I still need to take some head-on pictures of the deluxe - I'll add those in a bit.

Head Geometry and Blade Angle

I like to take some profile shots so I can measure the blade angle and exposure. Here are the profiles of both models. As you can see, there is a farily different head geometry between these two. The standard has a higher domed cap, and deluxe a bit flatter.

$standard profile.jpg
Standard

$deluxe profile.jpg
Deluxe

To get an idea of the native blade angle for these, I took some close up profile shots, and estimated the blade angle. Note, the problems with the standard cap alignment probably has an effect on the results here, although it's not a huge impact to the blade angle - it's mostly the head geometry that affects it here.

$standard blade profile drawing.jpg
Standard

$deluxe blade profile drawing.jpg
Deluxe

First Shaves

I've shaved with each of these Darwins twice now. The first shave for each was on two day's growth, and the second on a single day's growth. I kept everthing else the same, and my usual go-to recipe:

Face Lathered Arko
Home made TGN Super Silvertip
Feather blade
Alum
Gillette Vintage Sun-up AS

Standard:
Shave 1: The cutting angle is easy to find as it's pretty much the native angle (e.g. cap and gaurd squarly on the face). It felt like about a 25-30 degree blade angle, and as the measurement showed, that's about where it is. This razor is feeling about like a New SC I'd say - maybe a tad more aggressive. The "on paper" blade exposure is actually right at zero, but it feels like a tad more in actual use. It's a very confidence inspiring razor, and nicely balances aggressiveness and safety. One sort of odd thing I noticed is that the blade feels unusually "connected" to the razor for the amount of support that I actually see for the blade. I think there might be something with the way the cap is designed, you get better application of force on the blade edge, keeping it more stable. It could also have something to do with the steel that's used..maybe density. I did my usual 3+ passes (WTG, XTG, ATG, ATG jawline only). I needed a little bit more touch up in some spots on the jaw line, and I had a nice BBS shave. Not one weeper or irritted spot. Alum had absolutely zero burn (which is unusual for me.. I usually have at least a little here and there). One annoyance - the screw that protrudes throught the cap gets in the way going N>S under the nose. Also, not quite enough blade exposure to get right up against the nose, with the tall cap. Had to do E-W there only.

Shave 2: This one was just a one day's growth, but still took 3+ to finish. No real new revelations, used the same 25-30 degree blade angle, and had a good shave. Same irritation free post shave.

Deluxe:
Shave 1: The cutting angle is definitely more shallow with this razor. It felt like low 20's or even less, and the measurements proved that out. I could tell this razor had a tad less blade exposure as well. It's still effective, but on the mild side of what I like. I would say this is still in the ball park of the New SC, but a bit milder than that. It's still effective, but I was needing to press a little in some areas to get good bite on the hairs. I needed to do a full fourth pass (ATG) with the Deluxe to get to BBS everywhere. Other than being a touch mild, it didn't really have any other issues. The head on the Deluxe is a bit lower profile, so was more friendly under the nose. The handle screw also protrudes less on the Deluxe. I had a little bit of burn with the Alum. All in all, a good solid shave.

Shave 2: One days growth on this shave. Not a lot more info gleaned on this shave. Because of low exposure, there's a pretty small range of blade engagement, so you need to pay attention to angle to keep the blade on your face.

Summary:

Both of these razors shave well, but the edge for me is probably with the standard, as I like a little bit more bite in a razor. I'm not sure if the build issues I mentioned, if not present, might not make these razors more similar. I'd be curious to see some closeups of another Standard. The Deluxe wins hands down as a looker though. They're both attractive, but the Deluxe is just gorgeous. The obvious answer is to have one of each. You can shave with the standard, while you stare at the Deluxe :biggrin1:. Other minor nits: the handles are pretty slick. Alum kept me safe and sound, but if grip is a problem for you, you might want to look elsewhere. The metals nerd in me *loves* the cobalt steel construction. It's worth the cost of ownership (for me) just for that. However, I'd likely float back to others for my daily shaves, as I just like to have a little more blade action and angle choices. As such, these would probably be hanger queens for me. Unfortunately Alex, that won't keep me from competing with you (and apparently quite a few others) on the auction floor:lol: I'll be following up for a bit with some more shaves, then will be passing this on to the next gent in the list!
 
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This thread will be a treat to read. I can't wait to hear more about these incredibly expensive and rare razors.
 
James you have done an excellent review with great images to help us understand....i want to know if the shorter teeth had any affect on your shave and judgement of the standard.
 
Well, the issue with the two short teeth, I don't think did. The rest of the teeth are ok (all at same height), so it's somewhat similar to having a couple of bent teeth on an OC - not usually something that makes much difference. I'll be playing with it though to see if I can detect any flex in the blade because of it, or other anomalies.

Now the cap alignment...I'm not so sure that's not playing a role here. I'd like to see some close ups of a Standard that doesn't have that issue.

James you have done an excellent review with great images to help us understand....i want to know if the shorter teeth had any affect on your shave and judgement of the standard.
 
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Well, this was fascinating. Thank you for a very thorough and honest review. The more we talk on the board here and research, the more I lean toward the same conclusion that you did in reference to Darwin hand making these razors...at least partially. My Darwin Deluxe is hands down my favorite DE and quite possibly my favorite razor overall. My OCD can certainly find flaws in my razor that lend credence to hand versus machine work. The variations in the top cap designs/markings and actual cap shape, the shape of the bottom of the handle, the location of the makers stamp on the handles or, at least in my case, no stamp whatsoever and now, looking at your pictures of the handles, there is a noticeable difference between the two of them even though they are shaped the same. Its interesting how many variations there were just between these two razors and the seemingly limited quantity that was produced.

Interesting that you found the Deluxe mild compared to the Standard (or just mild period). I have never shaved with a Standard so I have no way to compare but I generally shave with SE's during my workweek and I like aggressive razors....Streamlines and MMOC's...On my Fatboy and Slim, I open them to 9. I really don't like mild razors. That said, my Deluxe is my all around winner in 1 pass efficiency. It even takes off more in 1 pass than any SE I have used. Maybe it's a YMMV thing and it just fits me perfectly. I don't know. I just wouldn't classify MY Deluxe as mild. I love the shave though. It's incredibly smooth. It's unlike any other razor I have ever used. I am still testing the razors I have left as my RAD is dead. I didn't have the epiphany when I got my Deluxe that my RAD was dead and it's taken a while to get here, but my RAD is basically dead. I will be following this thread with interest.
 
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Intrigued

Bigfoot & Bagel aficionado.
Good evening folks! Connie (username Intrigued) has graciously agreed to a small pass around of her treasured Darwin Standard, to collect some reviews of this interesting, and increasingly expensive semi-open combed razor. In addition, she has asked that I also review her Darwin Deluxe and do a bit of a comparison between the two.

I'll be kicking this off with my initial thoughts on these after a couple of shaves with each, then I'll be following up with more shaves for another couple of weeks to get a good feel for any differences or similarities between them. After I'm done, I'll be sending the Deluxe back to Connie so her poor hubby can get back to shaving with it! The Standard will be going on to:

bluebishop - Ken
kingfisher - Randall
jbradley - Johnnie
GDCarrinton - Gary
syngent - James

.... When I received these last week, I was a bit in shock when I opened them. The finish, particularly on the Deluxe was just excellent. I couldn't believe something from the 30's or 40's could have plating this good. This was like new Muhle R41 level plating here. What I didn't realize (but should have... I just hadn't been paying enough attention in the BOTOC thread) was that these razors are not plated. They're basically a polished stainless steel, but more specifically a cobalt steel. Darwin LTD was a machine tool steel company (amoung other things), and they apparently fashioned these razors out of one of their cobalt steels. Cobalt steels are used in machining applications because they maintain hardness, even at high temperatures, and have some good wear charaterstics. So why make razors out of this stuff? That's a good question. There wouldn't be much reason to do so, as there are other less expensive steels formulated with a focus on corrosion resistance that would be cheaper, and easier to work with. I'm guessing here, but I suspect that these might have been giveaways for sales of their tool steels , or some other sort of promotion items. I happen to have two metalurgists in my family, both interested in these razors and their composition. With the help of a cobalt steel/alloy expert we know, we're going to see if we can figure out what sort of composition these might be, as well as some more history on the razors......

Thanks so much for such a great lead off to this pass around. I'm really looking forward to seeing what the metalurgists can figure out about these razors. :thumbup1:
 
I am glad that Connie had you as the first participant of the pass around.

So often a review is based purely on hype, not the fine points and personal observation. This was an outstanding and excellent review. I am looking forward to hear the others, especially the one fom Gary, as he also is scientific and logical in his product evaluation.
 

Intrigued

Bigfoot & Bagel aficionado.
Well, this was fascinating. Thank you for a very thorough and honest review. The more we talk on the board here and research, the more I lean toward the same conclusion that you did in reference to Darwin hand making these razors...at least partially. My Darwin Deluxe is hands down my favorite DE and quite possibly my favorite razor overall. My OCD can certainly find flaws in my razor that lend credence to hand versus machine work. The variations in the top cap designs/markings and actual cap shape, the shape of the bottom of the handle, the location of the makers stamp on the handles or, at least in my case, no stamp whatsoever and now, looking at your pictures of the handles, there is a noticeable difference between the two of them even though they are shaped the same. Its interesting how many variations there were just between these two razors and the seemingly limited quantity that was produced........

If you could post some close up pictures in this thread of your Darwin, it might be fun to see if we can spot any differences between your Deluxe and mine, ie, blade angle, handle tooling.....

The Standard has the stamp on the handle. The Deluxe does not. This is another one of those oddities that seems to be so common with the Darwins. I don't think that all Standards have that stamp either.
 
I think that some of the Darwins may have had some defect as James pointed out the shorter teeth, this kind of defect is not wear and tear related. The metal is just too strong for that. It may have been a production defect of some sort.
 
Connie, let me work on that. It might take a few days but I need to get some better pics of my Darwin anyway. I have access to a better camera now than when I took those other pictures.
 
If you could post some close up pictures in this thread of your Darwin, it might be fun to see if we can spot any differences between your Deluxe and mine, ie, blade angle, handle tooling.....

The Standard has the stamp on the handle. The Deluxe does not. This is another one of those oddities that seems to be so common with the Darwins. I don't think that all Standards have that stamp either.


My Standard does not have the stamp.
 
Excellent review James! Great photo's and information. We use cobalt steel in the operating room on certain instruments and they always have a much different feel than average stainless. Great job!

I am still testing the razors I have left as my RAD is dead. I didn't have the epiphany when I got my Deluxe that my RAD was dead and it's taken a while to get here, but my RAD is basically dead. I will be following this thread with interest.

Not sure why, but I found this funny! In less than two sentences you went from RAD being dead, to basically dead. A true B&B'r!
 
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