I have the Facon blades. Maybe I have some defects, but I went through a couple just trying to get one in the razor. No joke! I think three blades broke when I tightened down the head. I think the one blade I tried was sharp but also very harsh and unpleasant.
Blade sharpness test
- Thread starter Filudo
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I have the Facon blades. Maybe I have some defects, but I went through a couple just trying to get one in the razor. No joke! I think three blades broke when I tightened down the head. I think the one blade I tried was sharp but also very harsh and unpleasant.
I suspect a strain gauge setup doing a wet hanging hair test would give better results, but the physics of cutting wet hair at skin level makes it very difficult to measure "sharpness" in a really meaningful way to compare blade performance.
The bevel angles and bevel finish (compared to the actual polished cutting bevel) have a large effect on perceived sharpness, which is a lot different than the force it takes to push a razor blade through something. A fat bevel (low angle) will give more cutting resistance than a steep angle no matter what the edge looks or acts like -- prefect example is cutting carrots with a knife. If the knife it too "fat" behind the edge as soon as the bevel penetrates the blade will wedge the carrot apart with a "crunch" even if the edge is hone to actual razor sharpness. The wide blade behind the edge forces the sides of the cut apart far enough the carrot tissue fails before the edge touches it and all the "cutting" is being done by forcing a blunt wedge through brittle material.
There are a couple of good books on this subject, can't remember the name of it, but I have one. Lots of discussion about working sharp edges and clearance angles, all of which applies to shaving as much as to woodwork!
All that said, the tables produced are somewhat of a guide and sort of match up with my personal experiences. Me, I'd just buy a tuck of whatever blade I want to test and shave with one. Nearly every blade I've tried so far gives me a decent if not excellent first shave, the real differences are in how long the last and the rate at which shave quality falls off. I've not found a blade that felt actually dull when new, but some of them feel a lot slicker than others.
The bevel angles and bevel finish (compared to the actual polished cutting bevel) have a large effect on perceived sharpness, which is a lot different than the force it takes to push a razor blade through something. A fat bevel (low angle) will give more cutting resistance than a steep angle no matter what the edge looks or acts like -- prefect example is cutting carrots with a knife. If the knife it too "fat" behind the edge as soon as the bevel penetrates the blade will wedge the carrot apart with a "crunch" even if the edge is hone to actual razor sharpness. The wide blade behind the edge forces the sides of the cut apart far enough the carrot tissue fails before the edge touches it and all the "cutting" is being done by forcing a blunt wedge through brittle material.
There are a couple of good books on this subject, can't remember the name of it, but I have one. Lots of discussion about working sharp edges and clearance angles, all of which applies to shaving as much as to woodwork!
All that said, the tables produced are somewhat of a guide and sort of match up with my personal experiences. Me, I'd just buy a tuck of whatever blade I want to test and shave with one. Nearly every blade I've tried so far gives me a decent if not excellent first shave, the real differences are in how long the last and the rate at which shave quality falls off. I've not found a blade that felt actually dull when new, but some of them feel a lot slicker than others.
Ron R
I survived a lathey foreman
The best way to test for a sharp blade is look at the test results given on different videos out there that was recorded and then use the blade.
I can tell you right now that the tests are not as accurate as folks would like them( they just indicate a sharp edge only)
To take the test further is using the blade for sharpness + smoothness and longevity of the blade.
On the well known "refined shave" testing which was done pretty reasonable it shows the DE Kai SS blade as fairly mediocre and I have used and researched this blade over the years and can not agree with the outcome he came up with.
For a DE blade to get 10 shaves on my beard type like what happened today to the Kai SS blade must be very sharp IMO. I received a BBS that lasted about 8-9 hrs today and it still had good life in the blade after 10 uses.
The metal make up formulation is superior to other blades and heat treatment is very accurate to the right hardness would be my conclusion.
Super sharpness edge indicates to me the shave might not be as smooth and the edge will deteriorate quickly because the grind angle is usually steeper so edge is weaker even with platinum coatings. (It seems you gain in one area "Sharpness" but you sacrifice on other important characteristics of smoothness and longevity for a excellent balanced blade.) If using a blade for just sharpness and toss after 1-2 shaves a very sharp blade might suit that person needs but a majority of fellows want 3-6 shaves it seems. My $.02 worth of thought on blade sharpness.
I can tell you right now that the tests are not as accurate as folks would like them( they just indicate a sharp edge only)
To take the test further is using the blade for sharpness + smoothness and longevity of the blade.
On the well known "refined shave" testing which was done pretty reasonable it shows the DE Kai SS blade as fairly mediocre and I have used and researched this blade over the years and can not agree with the outcome he came up with.
For a DE blade to get 10 shaves on my beard type like what happened today to the Kai SS blade must be very sharp IMO. I received a BBS that lasted about 8-9 hrs today and it still had good life in the blade after 10 uses.
The metal make up formulation is superior to other blades and heat treatment is very accurate to the right hardness would be my conclusion.
Super sharpness edge indicates to me the shave might not be as smooth and the edge will deteriorate quickly because the grind angle is usually steeper so edge is weaker even with platinum coatings. (It seems you gain in one area "Sharpness" but you sacrifice on other important characteristics of smoothness and longevity for a excellent balanced blade.) If using a blade for just sharpness and toss after 1-2 shaves a very sharp blade might suit that person needs but a majority of fellows want 3-6 shaves it seems. My $.02 worth of thought on blade sharpness.
- Thread starter
- #24
For me: Thai Gillette Super Thin and Kai, both give me weepers.....it's absurd.....new blades and even on second (last) use....tried a few razors same results..... Feathers, after 3 uses= weepers....
All of these are very sharp.....but for some reason, or the ones I have tried.....not compatible w my skin.
Hence I stay w Rusky Gillette and Personna USA nd Israel..... the right amount of sharpness and smooth....can get 5-10 shaves from them.... Except the yellow Gillette.....maybe mine are defective: total garbage.....they don't cut.....
All of these are very sharp.....but for some reason, or the ones I have tried.....not compatible w my skin.
Hence I stay w Rusky Gillette and Personna USA nd Israel..... the right amount of sharpness and smooth....can get 5-10 shaves from them.... Except the yellow Gillette.....maybe mine are defective: total garbage.....they don't cut.....
- Thread starter
- #25
In the "How it's Made" DE blade episode, the QC tests the blades cutting wet paper. It doesn't seem to me to be comparable to actually shaving with one. I can only imagine it being a sharpness test.
Unrelated though, I used to have a ceramic kitchen knife. It was super cheap, less than ten dollars. When it was new, it was so sharp I could "fruit ninja" a banana with it. Over time, the blade chipped and I disposed of it. For sure, it would rate high on a sharpness test like this. Would a ceramic blade be good for shaving? I haven't heard of any.
Unrelated though, I used to have a ceramic kitchen knife. It was super cheap, less than ten dollars. When it was new, it was so sharp I could "fruit ninja" a banana with it. Over time, the blade chipped and I disposed of it. For sure, it would rate high on a sharpness test like this. Would a ceramic blade be good for shaving? I haven't heard of any.
lasta
Blade Biter
There are blades that fit, but they crack.
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This guy has the expensive tester and some of his results are believable... until we get to that last one! That is the problem with trying to hand test instead of have a jig, it wouldn't be hard to accidentally impart 15g of user input apparently.
Ron R
I survived a lathey foreman
They can make those blades but would last to long I'm thinking. As a machinist we used ceramic coated carbide and they work very well. You could see blades in the future with ceramic coatings or titanium oxide coatings but still do not think it would be of interest for manufactures of blades(examples, the Personna 74 tungsten powder carbide SS sintered blade had to stop production because they lasted to long and sales dropped off + Gillette was whining so they came out with their spoiler brand> like cutting off the hand that feeds them or smart like tractor!).
Have some great shaves!
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My opinion, don't waste your money!! I bought a 50 pk from Amazon and only used 2 blades and threw the rest away. Although they were a sharp blade, not Feather sharp though, I found that although I didn't have a problem loading my Ti Blackbird with one it was trying to remove the blade from the head. Had to snap it in half to get it removed... I wrote a review somewhere but have been unable to find it but it wasn't favorable at all...
I was looking for the review I did with the Facon blade and found it...
This was from 12/11/22
I was curious about the sharpness of this blade after watching the video about it being the sharpest DE blade and took one for the team hear, besides it was less than $5 for 50 blades!! To start off with I went to load my Ti Blackbird with a blade and I had to actually force the blade onto the top cap, (I should've known better), and it was about the same as loading the Wunderbar slant I had once upon a time...
On to the shave and I must admit the 2.5 pass shave I had was not only very comfortable but also ended in a very close BBS shave much like a Feather in the Ti BB. I would even put the sharpness in at least the Feather range and is probably why I had a really close shave but that is probably the only real positive I can give this blade. After the shave was when I ran into what I felt was the real problem in that I couldn't get the blade off the top cap as it was pushed all the way onto the top cap and stuck on the threads of the top cap. I couldn't even get it off with a screwdriver!! What I finally ended up doing was very carefully pinch the blade and snapped it in half on the top cap which finally released it from the death grip it had on my top cap!! Shame I had to do it that way but it is what it is.
I am writing this several hours later and have to say I'm still a pretty solid BBS but would have to say they are nothing more than a 1 shave and done blade for me because I refuse to leave a blade in a $300 razor for multiple shaves. I am very adamant about cleaning my razor after each and every shave and that can't be done without removing the blade. I will probably burn through the rest of the 50 I bought now that I know how to remove them as long as I'm very careful doing it.
I would suggest buyer beware to anyone else that wants to try them...
Follow up on 12/24/22
Thought about doing a follow-up to my last post on this blade and can add that the BBS shave I had lasted well into the 20hr+ realm and close to one of the best shaves I think I've ever had which left me thinking on what to do with the rest of the blades I have. I also wanted to get in another shave, which again was a great BBS, and take some pics of what I was describing the problems I had with the blade and how it fit in my Ti Blackbird. I took a couple pics to try and show the exposure and from what I can see it was pretty even, side to side, to my eye anyway... As you can see in pic #3 how the blade formed to the curvature of the top cap and was stuck in place and not moving at all but It was no problem removing the blade again with snapping it in half to get it off the post screw.
This was from 12/11/22
I was curious about the sharpness of this blade after watching the video about it being the sharpest DE blade and took one for the team hear, besides it was less than $5 for 50 blades!! To start off with I went to load my Ti Blackbird with a blade and I had to actually force the blade onto the top cap, (I should've known better), and it was about the same as loading the Wunderbar slant I had once upon a time...
On to the shave and I must admit the 2.5 pass shave I had was not only very comfortable but also ended in a very close BBS shave much like a Feather in the Ti BB. I would even put the sharpness in at least the Feather range and is probably why I had a really close shave but that is probably the only real positive I can give this blade. After the shave was when I ran into what I felt was the real problem in that I couldn't get the blade off the top cap as it was pushed all the way onto the top cap and stuck on the threads of the top cap. I couldn't even get it off with a screwdriver!! What I finally ended up doing was very carefully pinch the blade and snapped it in half on the top cap which finally released it from the death grip it had on my top cap!! Shame I had to do it that way but it is what it is.
I am writing this several hours later and have to say I'm still a pretty solid BBS but would have to say they are nothing more than a 1 shave and done blade for me because I refuse to leave a blade in a $300 razor for multiple shaves. I am very adamant about cleaning my razor after each and every shave and that can't be done without removing the blade. I will probably burn through the rest of the 50 I bought now that I know how to remove them as long as I'm very careful doing it.
I would suggest buyer beware to anyone else that wants to try them...
Follow up on 12/24/22
Thought about doing a follow-up to my last post on this blade and can add that the BBS shave I had lasted well into the 20hr+ realm and close to one of the best shaves I think I've ever had which left me thinking on what to do with the rest of the blades I have. I also wanted to get in another shave, which again was a great BBS, and take some pics of what I was describing the problems I had with the blade and how it fit in my Ti Blackbird. I took a couple pics to try and show the exposure and from what I can see it was pretty even, side to side, to my eye anyway... As you can see in pic #3 how the blade formed to the curvature of the top cap and was stuck in place and not moving at all but It was no problem removing the blade again with snapping it in half to get it off the post screw.
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I don't know and it might have been something to look into but the Ti Blackbird is my only DE in the cabinet so I couldn't test that theory... I couldn't even test them now anyway as they made their way to the dump earlier this year.
Just so you can refer back to it, here is the article with the Refined Edge test result: Razor Blade Sharpness Testing - https://www.refinedshave.com/razor-blade-sharpness-testing/
The Refined Edge tests confirm most of my experiences. It is interesting how Feathers have turned out in these tests. I've never been awestruck by the Feather blade, especially on its durability. I've tried a lot of different blades, but I mostly use Astra Superior Platinums and Gillette Silver Blues. After being amused by the packaging and name of Shark blades (re MacK The Knife), I was not impressed with them -- the regular Shark. Now I've got a bunch of Shark Super Stainless, and they are pretty decent.
Cheers!
Tony
- Thread starter
- #37
As I recall, that was basically the problem I had, only during installation. The center punch was too tight for the razor. I don't remember what razor I used, but maybe it "warped" the blade and resulted in such a harsh shave. I still have mine. Maybe I will try them in a TTO.
For a while, my benchmark for razor blade testing has been a table called “Razor Blade Sharpness Summary with Comparison Chart”.
It was published on a different forum, but you can still google and access it.
I believe that table is more indicative of the true blade sharpness as it first shows sharpness of a new blade and then again sharpness after shave one and two.
Quite a few blades in that table show an increase in blade sharpness for the first and some even for the second shave. This could be explained by the protective coating of the blade wearing off with use.
At first, the list shows 15 blades, but you have the option to increase the table to show all 47 entries.
There is also a second table that compares blades in terms of durability.
While I appreciate the effort that went into creating the table mentioned by the OP in the first post, I still do believe that the methodology used has weaknesses as it solely shows the sharpness of a new blade (with all the factory coating intact) and gives no indication how this sharpness develops during subsequent shaves.
B.
It was published on a different forum, but you can still google and access it.
I believe that table is more indicative of the true blade sharpness as it first shows sharpness of a new blade and then again sharpness after shave one and two.
Quite a few blades in that table show an increase in blade sharpness for the first and some even for the second shave. This could be explained by the protective coating of the blade wearing off with use.
At first, the list shows 15 blades, but you have the option to increase the table to show all 47 entries.
There is also a second table that compares blades in terms of durability.
While I appreciate the effort that went into creating the table mentioned by the OP in the first post, I still do believe that the methodology used has weaknesses as it solely shows the sharpness of a new blade (with all the factory coating intact) and gives no indication how this sharpness develops during subsequent shaves.
B.
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