Blade Chatter: What Is It and Is it Real?

[Darth Scandalous]

I also really like the fatip rigidity but unfortunately it's not efficient enough to provide a BBS.

If fatip would fix the blade alignment issue and make it a touch more efficient by increasing the exposure, it'd rocket into my top 5 razors of all time!

Hell, even if they don't make it more efficient and just fix the alignment issue, I'd still have one in my den to enjoy now and then.

I could live with the alignment, mine is not too bad actually. About one in every four blades I have to go back and tweak. But I do wish it was a little more efficient. I do like it with a fresh Feather blade though. And oddly enough I don't think I've ever had to fix the alignment with a Feather.

If I could combine the efficiency of my New SC with the feel of the Fatip I would be over the moon. As it is I'm pretty happy having both in my den.

 

[ivan_101]

Blade chatter is directly related to blade clamping. But it is not that simple. It matters where the clamping occurs on the blade and how big is the area clamped. Blade reveal (the part of the blade you see when you look from above the cap) matters too. So does blade bending. Stronger bending will reduce chatter to a certain degree. There is also the factor that some blades are thinner than other and some are more flexible.

 

[Alex Jr]

If I could combine the efficiency of my New SC with the feel of the Fatip I would be over the moon. As it is I'm pretty happy having both in my den.

I’ve been thinking about a SC or LC. How do they compare with the fatip?

I can never make up my mind about which one to try first.

 

[Galaktus]

There's an old TV ad for a Schick injector razors, where they shave a slice off a soap bar and then use a DE to do the same. You can plainly see blade chatter with the DE. My Google-Fu is weak at the moment otherwise I would post a link.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I’ve been thinking about a SC or LC. How do they compare with the fatip?

I can never make up my mind about which one to try first.

I only have tried the SC so far, I have a LC in the mail though. The comb on the SC is a little more "toothy" so I find it less comfortable than the Fatip. In terms of shave, on my face the SC is both more efficient (i.e. faster) than the Fatip and gets closer, but I have to be careful not to overdo it. The Fatip is much more forgiving in that regard. I've only used Nacets and Bic CPs in the SC so far. I can nearly match its efficiency with a Feather in the Fatip though. The SC is more angle dependent, too (fairly shallow) where the Fatips have a wider window of effective angle.

That's my experience, anyway.

 

[nav]

Yeah, I see your point.

I like that little sucker so much that I put up with the blade fiddling.

The gentile on the other hand sacrificed a lot of rigidity and in my opinion is harsher ATG, despite being made to be “gentle”.

From memory, I also recall the gentile didn't feel as nice as the open comb.

I may actually have a special edition (with both plates) fatip laying around somewhere.
I'll have to go on a little treasure hunt in my store room.

I could live with the alignment, mine is not too bad actually. About one in every four blades I have to go back and tweak. But I do wish it was a little more efficient. I do like it with a fresh Feather blade though. And oddly enough I don't think I've ever had to fix the alignment with a Feather.

If I could combine the efficiency of my New SC with the feel of the Fatip I would be over the moon. As it is I'm pretty happy having both in my den.

The fatip open comb was quite good with a BIC but lacked the WOW factor efficiency of the blackbird.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

The fatip open comb was quite good with a BIC but lacked the WOW factor efficiency of the blackbird.

That's my other go-to blade in that razor. And I do often have to adjust the alignment on Bics for whatever reason.

 

[Alex Jr]

I only have tried the SC so far, I have a LC in the mail though. The comb on the SC is a little more "toothy" so I find it less comfortable than the Fatip. In terms of shave, on my face the SC is both more efficient (i.e. faster) than the Fatip and gets closer, but I have to be careful not to overdo it. The Fatip is much more forgiving in that regard. I've only used Nacets and Bic CPs in the SC so far. I can nearly match its efficiency with a Feather in the Fatip though. The SC is more angle dependent, too (fairly shallow) where the Fatips have a wider window of effective angle.

That's my experience, anyway.

Thank you! Nice info. It’ll be nice if you could update it once you try the LC.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Thank you! Nice info. It’ll be nice if you could update it once you try the LC.

Will try to remember to report back here, otherwise I'm sure I'll write it up in my journal. From what I've read the LC shaves smoother but clamps differently and opinions are mixed on whether that is a problem or not.

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

... I'm surprised to hear YouTube shavers say "this razor has good audible feedback". This to me is a huge negative, nothing "good" about it!
It's the sound of the blade chattering against the stubble.

Try the mock shave experiment I mentioned in post #23, and refer to @Wgg2017's comment in post #35 before you draw any conclusions.

... Thom

 

[SalS]

Shave with a Henson then any casted razor if you want to experience blade chatter. It’s probably the source for more irritation than anything else.

 

[Lane101]

One would think that until you try a Lambda Athena. It clamps the blade very well and doesn’t have much exposure either, yet it’s probably the loudest razor I’ve ever used.




I’m feeling a bit pedantic today. A steep angle would be riding the bar. A shallow angle would be riding the cap. Steep vs shallow angle always confused me early on.

For the question of blade chatter, I’ve experienced it. On either side of my Adam’s apple I have a swirl pattern and the whiskers are thick and lay flat against my skin. I need a razor that clamps on the blade very well for that area. The other 90% of my face I can use any razor.

Thank you for clarifying. Looks like a mix up between the angle of the blade to the skin versus the angle of the razor handle. I was interpreting from the perspective of the latter. Riding the cap comes with steep handle angle to provide a shallow blade angle with the reverse also true. Found an earlier B&B thread that does a good job, with illustrations, of defining all of this.

Regardless if @SeaDiving 's was referring to a shallow blade angle or riding the bar with a King C. Gillette razor the effect should be reduced blade contact from what is already one of the mildest razors. Unclear why this would cause weepers.

When you refer to the blade chatter you experienced what exactly were the symptoms? Are you referring to the blade skipping across your skin or something else?

Link to B&B Thread Defining Steep vs. Shallow Blade Angles and Riding Cap vs. Guard:

Steep and Shallow Angle Shaving DEFINED

The illustration above was posted today in the DE razors forum (B&B URL), and @Cal, who helped me refine it, thought that I should post it here. Since the illustration applies to both double-edge (DE) and single-edge (SE) safety razors, it does seem to belong here, too. The comprehensive...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[Lane101]

Blade chatter on my beard causes the blade to skip and also nick my skin.
The shave itself is also not close and leaves the skin with irritation.

I'm surprised to hear YouTube shavers say "this razor has good audible feedback". This to me is a huge negative, nothing "good" about it!
It's the sound of the blade chattering against the stubble.

Again, if ones beard is such that the chatter doesn't make a difference, them I can totally get why they may think chatter is not real.

E.g. I found all vintage TTO razors to chatter.
Even a fatboy/slim set at 9 can't give me a BBS due to the chatter (plus skin irritation). Whereas the Merkur Progress, with its huge blade bend, gives me a beautiful BBS on setting 3.5/5 without chatter.

My favorite razor is the blackbird. It has zero chatter and the huge blade exposure gives me an unmatched BBS.
Guys find this razor aggressive...Whereas I find it butter smooth as it mows through the stubble with no chatter and the exposure gives a deep BBS without any skin irritation.

Thanks, sounds like you are combining the two definitions of blade chatter in my OP as a set of symptoms of the same thing. No questions about the blade skipping as blade chatter, this has been widely reported/cautioned against in over 100 years of shaving documentation. We may need to regard the second definition/set of symptoms that can include the blade resonating, providing audible feedback, etc. as a YMMV that some of us experience and others do not.

As far as actual blade chatter symptoms, that the user can identify during a shave, so far we really have the following three:

• Blade skipping across skin during a shave potentially causing nicks
• Audible feedback perceived as blade chatter
• Detectable blade movement within the razor, typically due to user error in failing to adequately tighten a razors blade retention mechanism

Any other identifiable blade chatter symptoms you or anyone else can thing of?

Note for a blade resonating, short of a scientific study, I don't see what a user could detect beyond audible shave feedback.

 

[SeaDiving]

Hello all,

When I was referring to blade chatter with a king c gillette, I can assure you that I am really referring to the fact that in some area of the my face, where whiskers are coarse, the razor was unable to maintain a constant velocity along the whole blade. Parts of the blade was almost bouncing on some whiskers, inducing a differential of velocity across the blade causing vibrations because it was not clamped enough. At least this is how I interpret what was happening and what is blade chatter.

And I tried several blades to avoid that, from feathers to nacet to milder blades. For some reasons the only blades that reduced this was the persona platinum.

And I tried various angle and at the end either I ended up not shaved, either I ended up with nicks.

Now as I explained when I got an overlander everything changed all while my skills did not magically improved.

 

[Wgg2017]

When you refer to the blade chatter you experienced what exactly were the symptoms? Are you referring to the blade skipping across your skin or something else?

Yes the blade skips across my skin and causes nicks and irritation. It’s a very unpleasant feeling and only occurs on either side of my Adam’s apple.

 

[nav]

Try the mock shave experiment I mentioned in post #23, and refer to @Wgg2017's comment in post #35 before you draw any conclusions.

... Thom

Blade chatter creates a unique "tinny" sound which is not a characteristic razor sound like you mention with the mock shave.

All TTO razors make that tinny sound, some more than others. But for me, the TTO design is a no go.

Then there are razors that have good clamping but leave too much blade sticking out, like theTatara for example, causing the blade to flex against stubble and cause an unpleasant experience.

Thanks, sounds like you are combining the two definitions of blade chatter in my OP as a set of symptoms of the same thing. No questions about the blade skipping as blade chatter, this has been widely reported/cautioned against in over 100 years of shaving documentation. We may need to regard the second definition/set of symptoms that can include the blade resonating, providing audible feedback, etc. as a YMMV that some of us experience and others do not.

As far as actual blade chatter symptoms, that the user can identify during a shave, so far we really have the following three:

• Blade skipping across skin during a shave potentially causing nicks
• Audible feedback perceived as blade chatter
• Detectable blade movement within the razor, typically due to user error in failing to adequately tighten a razors blade retention mechanism

Any other identifiable blade chatter symptoms you or anyone else can thing of?

Note for a blade resonating, short of a scientific study, I don't see what a user could detect beyond audible shave feedback.

I can definitely feel the unpleasantness of chatter on the skin, in addition to the tinny sound it generates whilst flexing against the stubble.

It's a very uncomfortable feeling on the skin and it's the #1 reason why I have gone through over 80 razors and stuck with just a couple in the end.

 

[ErkRusselReserve]

Try a Soloedge vs a Twig. Twig is much worse with chatter.

Try a Henson/Tile/Winning vs TTO. Huge difference.

New SC is great, but unforgiving with a modern DE blade. Would it be better with a thicker blade?

 

[ErkRusselReserve]

Cart blades that are on springs are actually folded to 90 degrees. They are rigid as hell!

Take apart a Fusion cart carefully. You will see.

 

[NorthernSoul]

I’ve been thinking about a SC or LC. How do they compare with the fatip?

I can never make up my mind about which one to try first.

I'd suggest trying the New SC first since you appreciate good blade edge support out close to the edge.

Comparing the New SC and LC you can see the LC supports the blade further away from the edge. The LC combs being longer might be why some prefer the LC. For me the SC is the better shaver, though it is blade-dependent to some extent.

How does it compare with Fatip? It has more blade gap and the combs are more squared off. It also positively locates the blade at all four corners so it cannot be loaded crooked or off-center (1930s design). I find it very easy to use though some describe it as unforgiving I have not found that to be an issue.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I have a very nice shave with my Canada Regent 1933 NEW LC the other day... Up in a few minutes is my first shave with a 1934 NEW SC. I'm a novice when it comes to Vintage razors. I only have a few, all of them acquired in the past month or so. The Regent's long comb design looked a bit intimidating at first glance but it shaved very, Very well....

After this morning's shave, I'm sending off 4 razors off to be re-plated by Chris @ Back Roads Gold...The NEW LC and SC and my Bayonetta in Chris' 24K hardened gold and my birthyear 1953 Y2 SuperSpeed in White Platinum.