Best way for first touch-up

[fatpanda]

Hi there....

I have been using the same two straights that were properly honed by a reputable straight user. These blades were honed last July and I have not touched them with a stone or paste since (since I have neither). I have used them for all my shaves since then and all that I do is do linen and latigo before each shave.

So I am thinking it is time for a touch up... I would appreciate if if you guys could give me some advice on what the best way would be to get my blades back to their original sharpness so I can mow down those whiskers!

Thank you,
FP

 

[holli4pirating]

It is sort of personal preference. I have an irrational, totally unfounded prejudice against pastes, so I would say get a nice finishing hone (like a Naniwa 12k) and do 10-15 passes on that, strop and test. If you need more, do some more, if you are good you are good. If just the 12k isn't cutting it, then pick up an 8k as well. Do 10-15 on the 8k, then 10-15 on th. 12k. Strop and shave and repeat as necessary.

It really depends on how far the blades are from "really shave ready" and what level you want to get them back to. Without knowing these two things, it's tough to say how many strokes on what hone.

All that said, paste (chrome ox or .5 diamond seem the most popular) on a hanging strop is inexpensive, easy, and can work very well (again, depending on where you edge is and where you want it to go). The only downside to pastes (that I know of) is that sooner or later, the pastes will round your edge and you will need to go back to hones. At that point, you'll have to go to a lower grit hone than if you'd just used the 12k initially, but how low is a question of where the edge is and where you want to take it.

 

[fatpanda]

Thanks for the advice... That helps...

 

[Oldfalguy]

Makes good sense to me as I only have 1/4/8k stones I will probably use a CrOx strop when the time comes that a regular strop no longer keeps it shaving sharp. If that doesn't quite do it I will be moving up to diamond then back down to the plain strop. I have a TM strop headed my way so hopefully it will get here before the Dovo 55 axe size blade its TLC.

I have to give you congrats for making it 9 months without honing and I can only hope i can do that but I have severe doubts.

 

[chess1]

I have to give you congrats for making it 9 months without honing and I can only hope i can do that but I have severe doubts.

wow i would say you know what. who did that job did wonderful job. Send that blades back to him.
yourself please go head buy a bad blade and a good barber hone .
bad blades to learn how to hone.
a good barber hone for touch ups. you will need only 2-4 passes edge will come back.
they are many of them out there
by 2 sided ones.
Cmon.
duble duck dry hone
frictionate 00
Panama hone
so on.
gl

 

[netsurfr]

It is sort of personal preference. I have an irrational, totally unfounded prejudice against pastes, so I would say get a nice finishing hone (like a Naniwa 12k) and do 10-15 passes on that, strop and test. If you need more, do some more, if you are good you are good. If just the 12k isn't cutting it, then pick up an 8k as well. Do 10-15 on the 8k, then 10-15 on th. 12k. Strop and shave and repeat as necessary.

It really depends on how far the blades are from "really shave ready" and what level you want to get them back to. Without knowing these two things, it's tough to say how many strokes on what hone.

All that said, paste (chrome ox or .5 diamond seem the most popular) on a hanging strop is inexpensive, easy, and can work very well (again, depending on where you edge is and where you want it to go). The only downside to pastes (that I know of) is that sooner or later, the pastes will round your edge and you will need to go back to hones. At that point, you'll have to go to a lower grit hone than if you'd just used the 12k initially, but how low is a question of where the edge is and where you want to take it.

Recommendations for hones becomes almost a religious debate. The Naniwa is a great hone. Another option is a yellow coticule. I keep one near the shaving area for touchup. Only takes a few passes on the yellow coticule with some water on it to bring a blade back to a perfect edge.

 

[Oldfalguy]

I reckon one of these days I will need to get a 12K stone-
excuse my abject ignorance but what grit is a yellow Coticule hone?
Do they vary? I have heard about the blue ones but don't know anything about them either.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Natural hones can't really be rated in grit. I get better shaves off a Coti with water than I did with either the Chinese Natural stone or three line swaty's. It's a perfectly suitable finishing stone when used properly.

 

[Sputnik]

+ 1 but... you need to find out for sure if the spine was taped when the razor was honed. If you do even 20 strokes on a 12K stone with an un-taped spine of a razor that WAS PREVIOUSLY TAPED, you will ruin the bevel.

It is sort of personal preference. I have an irrational, totally unfounded prejudice against pastes, so I would say get a nice finishing hone (like a Naniwa 12k) and do 10-15 passes on that, strop and test. If you need more, do some more, if you are good you are good. If just the 12k isn't cutting it, then pick up an 8k as well. Do 10-15 on the 8k, then 10-15 on th. 12k. Strop and shave and repeat as necessary.

It really depends on how far the blades are from "really shave ready" and what level you want to get them back to. Without knowing these two things, it's tough to say how many strokes on what hone.

All that said, paste (chrome ox or .5 diamond seem the most popular) on a hanging strop is inexpensive, easy, and can work very well (again, depending on where you edge is and where you want it to go). The only downside to pastes (that I know of) is that sooner or later, the pastes will round your edge and you will need to go back to hones. At that point, you'll have to go to a lower grit hone than if you'd just used the 12k initially, but how low is a question of where the edge is and where you want to take it.

 

[holli4pirating]

If you do even 20 strokes on a 12K stone with an un-taped spine of a razor that WAS PREVIOUSLY TAPED, you will ruin the bevel.

No, you won't. If you start honing a razor that was previously taped without the tape, the edge will not touch the hone. As such, you will end up "honing" the back of the bevel, not the edge. The edge will remain the same, until you hone enough to reset the bevel.

Natural hones can't really be rated in grit. I get better shaves off a Coti with water than I did with either the Chinese Natural stone or three line swaty's. It's a perfectly suitable finishing stone when used properly.

My C12k edges shave better than my Coti edges. Same was true on my Swaty, which had three lines of text. I also prefer the edges on my Asagi and my Thurry over those from my Coti.

 

[Sputnik]

Holli4, with all due and utmost respect, you are not making any sense whatsoever because you are basically repeating what I had said, while simultaneously affirming and negating it, and then in-consequently jumping off to a different subject on Coti, Thuri, etc. In other words, you are either confusing or confused, which is a dangerous combination on an Internet-based forum, where people come/look for advice. And some of them are not very experienced, so there is no need to add more confusion. Illogical contradictions are often amusing, but I am not sure people come here for that.

The question for you, however, is simple enough: How can the change of the honing angle not affect the bevel's geometry? Think about that! Draw a simple geometric diagram with acute and obtuse angles touching a flat surface. Better yet, take a razor, do an experiment with and without a tape, take a microscope, and see for yourself. Plus, I was not even talking about the edge, I was talking about the bevel. A multi-faceted bevel is a ruined bevel. It needs to be reset. Again, we are not talking about the edge here, because some people purposefully try to create a multi-faceted edge with several layers of tape.

Do you read or try to understand what other people say? I know you are passionate about the subject, but sometimes you really need to think before you fire off. Alternatively, you can always seek a clarification, which will either support your argument or negate it. That will make a discussion much more interesting and productive.

No, you won't. If you start honing a razor that was previously taped without the tape, the edge will not touch the hone. As such, you will end up "honing" the back of the bevel, not the edge. The edge will remain the same, until you hone enough to reset the bevel.

My C12k edges shave better than my Coti edges. Same was true on my Swaty, which had three lines of text. I also prefer the edges on my Asagi and my Thurry over those from my Coti.

 

[holli4pirating]

Sputnick -
The second paragraph in my post is a response to the post above yours, by Slice of Life, but I don't know how multi quote works on this forum.

I don't see how anything in my post affirms what you said. Clearly, a multifaceted bevel is not a ruined bevel, as other threads show some users like a double bevel and others find it no different from a normal, single bevel. A double bevel IS a multifaceted bevel. If you take a razor that was previously honed with tape and then try to touch it up without tape, you will create a double bevel, but in the opposite order from how it is "normally" done. Normally, you would hone without tape, creating the initial bevel, then add tape to hone just the edge and create the secondary bevel. If you initially honed with tape, you'd create the equivalent of the secondary bevel. Removing the tape and doing some strokes would then create a bevel behind the edge, the equevilant of the primary bevel above.

I really have no idea why you would make those accusations against me here. I can only assume that you didn't understand my post or have never experienced the scenario being discussed. If you don't want to take my word for it, grab a razor with a large bevel (probably a quarter hollow), and play with adding and removing tape. The large bevel will make it easy to see the multiple bevels. Or, if you only want to see what I'm talking about, don't bother to play around. Just tape the spine, set the bevel and get the razor up to shave ready. Then remove the tape and do about 20-50 laps on your finisher and look at the bevels. Then test shave again, and see if you ruined the edge.

With all the same respect you extended to me, it is your posts that don't make any sense.

 

[Sputnik]

Holli4: The double-bevel on the "opposite side", i.e., closer to the spine, is a ruined bevel that need to be reset, in my definition. Other than that, I agree with everything you said today because I do use tape when I hone. [I stopped doing double-edge bevels because I do not feel any difference.] Believe it or not, we agree on a lot of things, including aversion to pastes, that is why I always extend my respect. I noticed, however, that your stand-alone posts tend to be most informative and thoughtful producers of knowledge when compared with your quick responses that tend to veer off from time to time. Regards!

Sputnick -
The second paragraph in my post is a response to the post above yours, by Slice of Life, but I don't know how multi quote works on this forum.

I don't see how anything in my post affirms what you said. Clearly, a multifaceted bevel is not a ruined bevel, as other threads show some users like a double bevel and others find it no different from a normal, single bevel. A double bevel IS a multifaceted bevel. If you take a razor that was previously honed with tape and then try to touch it up without tape, you will create a double bevel, but in the opposite order from how it is "normally" done. Normally, you would hone without tape, creating the initial bevel, then add tape to hone just the edge and create the secondary bevel. If you initially honed with tape, you'd create the equivalent of the secondary bevel. Removing the tape and doing some strokes would then create a bevel behind the edge, the equevilant of the primary bevel above.

I really have no idea why you would make those accusations against me here. I can only assume that you didn't understand my post or have never experienced the scenario being discussed. If you don't want to take my word for it, grab a razor with a large bevel (probably a quarter hollow), and play with adding and removing tape. The large bevel will make it easy to see the multiple bevels. Or, if you only want to see what I'm talking about, don't bother to play around. Just tape the spine, set the bevel and get the razor up to shave ready. Then remove the tape and do about 20-50 laps on your finisher and look at the bevels. Then test shave again, and see if you ruined the edge.

With all the same respect you extended to me, it is your posts that don't make any sense.

 

[holli4pirating]

Holli4: The double-bevel on the "opposite side", i.e., closer to the spine, is a ruined bevel that need to be reset, in my definition.
...
Believe it or not, we agree on a lot of things, including aversion to pastes

I don't understand why you would hold the opinion that anything above the edge would affect the edge itself. Again, is this something you have directly experienced? Did you try out the little experiment I proposed? What have you experienced that causes you to hold this belief?

I do not have any aversion to pastes, I just don't use them. There is a lot more to pastes than meets the eye - the amount applied to what you paste, the combination of what the paste is and what you apply it to, the way the paste you choose compliments (or doesn't) the hone you come off and the manner in which you hone, etc etc. For me, there is just too much there to get a handle on. I have chosen to focus in on my honing first, and I can always try to figure out pastes later on.

 

[Sputnik]

I think you are missing the point: He needs to touch-up the edge!

So, let's presume, for the sake of our argument, that a guy needs to touch-up the edge of his mildly dull razor, which spine was previously taped. He does not know about taping or it does not occur to him to tape it again. Therefore, he does not tape the spine and just does 20 strokes on his Chinese 12K. The second bevel, closer to the spine, has now been formed and the edge has not been touched.

How would you fix that, without taping the spine? I would say that you will have to reset the bevel.

I don't understand why you would hold the opinion that anything above the edge would affect the edge itself. Again, is this something you have directly experienced? Did you try out the little experiment I proposed? What have you experienced that causes you to hold this belief?

I do not have any aversion to pastes, I just don't use them. There is a lot more to pastes than meets the eye - the amount applied to what you paste, the combination of what the paste is and what you apply it to, the way the paste you choose compliments (or doesn't) the hone you come off and the manner in which you hone, etc etc. For me, there is just too much there to get a handle on. I have chosen to focus in on my honing first, and I can always try to figure out pastes later on.

 

[holli4pirating]

...If you do even 20 strokes on a 12K stone with an un-taped spine of a razor that WAS PREVIOUSLY TAPED, you will ruin the bevel.

You initially said he would ruin the bevel.

No, you won't. If you start honing a razor that was previously taped without the tape, the edge will not touch the hone. As such, you will end up "honing" the back of the bevel, not the edge. The edge will remain the same, until you hone enough to reset the bevel.

I said he wouldn't, the edge would remain unchanged.

I think you are missing the point: He needs to touch-up the edge!

So, let's presume, for the sake of our argument, that a guy needs to touch-up the edge of his mildly dull razor, which spine was previously taped. He does not know about taping or it does not occur to him to tape it again. Therefore, he does not tape the spine and just does 20 strokes on his Chinese 12K. The second bevel, closer to the spine, has now been formed and the edge has not been touched.

How would you fix that, without taping the spine? I would say that you will have to reset the bevel.

Now you are also saying the edge will remain unchanged.

It appears to me that you are now saying what I have been saying all along, which is different from what you were initially saying.

 

[simon1]

Looks like the experienced honemeisters are getting into a procedural discussion...which is good. Gives me more information on stuff I know nothing about.

That said....

wow i would say you know what. who did that job did wonderful job. Send that blades back to him.
yourself please go head buy a bad blade and a good barber hone .
bad blades to learn how to hone.
a good barber hone for touch ups. you will need only 2-4 passes edge will come back.
they are many of them out there
by 2 sided ones.
Cmon.
duble duck dry hone
frictionate 00
Panama hone
so on.
gl

+1 Try and find a barber's hone. I just did a touch up on my favorite str8 shaver, a refurbished 6/8 McPherson Bros. I used a hone that a barber here in town gave me because he can't use a regular straight in the shop anymore due to the health regulations...can only use the shavettes.

It's only a single grit one, not double sided, but it says Ex. Hard...Ex. Fine on the box.

I just did 4 light passes, each side, with water on the stone (no tape and looked at the edge under a microscope). Stropped 25 times on linen and 50 on leather...makes a big difference and easy to do. Hadn't done anything but strop that blade for 6 months or better.

Haven't poked around much in the honing section on this site, but here's a good video on barber hones. YMMV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_uWwbmQlUM

Sorry for the flash reflection in the photo; it was just a quick snapshot.

 

[Sputnik]

You lost me, although I can assure you I was not asleep in the class that covered logic. Anyway, looks like we are now in agreement that the bevel needs to be reset.

You initially said he would ruin the bevel.



I said he wouldn't, the edge would remain unchanged.



Now you are also saying the edge will remain unchanged.

It appears to me that you are now saying what I have been saying all along, which is different from what you were initially saying.

 

[Sputnik]

I would not even dare to call myself a honemeister. Plus, Holli is much more experienced than I am: He says he honed 1,000+ razors. I am not there yet. But, you are right, I always learn something interesting during friendly exchanges.

Looks like the experienced honemeisters are getting into a procedural discussion...which is good. Gives me more information on stuff I know nothing about.

 

[holli4pirating]

You lost me, although I can assure you I was not asleep in the class that covered logic. Anyway, looks like we are now in agreement that the bevel needs to be reset.

No, I don't think the bevel needs to be reset. If the razor was initially honed with tape, it needs tape to be touched up. Or you could reset the bevel with no tape. But even if you start in with no tape, so long as you don't hone enough to put the edge on the hone, you can just add the tape and do a touchup. Honing the back of the bevel does not require the bevel to be reset, unless you want to rehone it without tape.

I would not even dare to call myself a honemeister. Plus, Holli is much more experienced than I am: He says he honed 1,000+ razors. I am not there yet. But, you are right, I always learn something interesting during friendly exchanges.

I'm no honemeister either. I've only just started learning. I've done about 1000, but I really couldn't give you an exact number.