Bear encounter!

[BobLH]

You have a very good point Bob, that some people really don't realize. Animals, and people, can take awhile to go down even after they are solidly hit. Skunks had been eating baby kittens here awhile back, and I saw one in the front yard earlier this spring. He ran about 25 yards after a solid chest hit with a .22. You know on that small an animal the .22 did some major damage...there was some rib bone sticking out the off side and the hit was in the heart/lung area...closer to the heart. I do believe I'd rather stick the barrel of a .44 down the throat of an attacking bear than my fist though.

Yup that is true, a .44 would be better. I do think carrying a revolver in case of a black bear attack is being just a little over cautious considering most encounters do not end in an attack. Not that it hasn't happened but again there is a slim chance.

I also don't think too many people can manage a number of repeated well aimed shots from a heavy caliber handgun at a charging black bear's head. They are amazingly fast sprinters when they want to be.

I'm just saying it may give a person a false sense of security.

Bob

 

[Ad Astra]

Since it was the first time I've bumped up against one of these things, still trying to figure a plan for the future. Scaring it worked this time, and if it had acted aggressive I didn't forget I was armed (though practically symbolically!) And though the last option, could have made a loud noise in its general direction.
I refuse to stop deep woods trekking, and may just have to accept a new reality. Typically I carry lunch out there, so have to think of something.


AA

 

[simon1]

Yup that is true, a .44 would be better. I do think carrying a revolver in case of a black bear attack is being just a little over cautious considering most encounters do not end in an attack. Not that it hasn't happened but again there is a slim chance.

I also don't think too many people can manage a number of repeated well aimed shots from a heavy caliber handgun at a charging black bear's head. They are amazingly fast sprinters when they want to be.

I'm just saying it may give a person a false sense of security.

Bob

You won't get any argument from me on your analysis Bob. Black bears are usually pretty gentle and run from what I've heard, like most of the wild animals I've came across (except for some kinds of snakes, not all, but some), but...it only takes one.

And as for the false sense of security I also agree, being as I was raised hunting and shooting and have had a couple or three of decades of formal training. Sometimes I run in to the people that think having a gun makes them bullet proof from the whole world. But (there's that word again) if you were telling someone what to carry going into bear country would you rather them carry a sharp stick or a .44? Just wondering.

And Mike...I know you're not going to run out and buy a Smith and Wesson .500 magnum just for seeing a black bear on your walks, but a can of OC spray may not be a bad idea. And don't get a false sense of security having it...I've seen people it didn't work on real well...ruh roh.

As I have said, I have zero experience with any kind of bear. I'll try to find realdog4's post on his encounter. He was a bit worried about the increase in sightings due to the habitat being reduced in the area he was backpacking in. It scared the S word outa him when he got charged. He had to beat it off with a stick.

You'll probably be just fine on your day camping though. It's a lot safer than walking through the 'hood in town around here at night.

 

[simon1]

Found the threads.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...-durable-and-powerful-handgun-for-backpacking

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...num-Ruger-Blackhawk-with-the-4-62-inch-barrel

Read at your leisure, talk to people in your area, and make your own decisions.

 

[BobLH]

You won't get any argument from me on your analysis Bob. Black bears are usually pretty gentle and run from what I've heard, like most of the wild animals I've came across (except for some kinds of snakes, not all, but some), but...it only takes one.

And as for the false sense of security I also agree, being as I was raised hunting and shooting and have had a couple or three of decades of formal training. Sometimes I run in to the people that think having a gun makes them bullet proof from the whole world. But (there's that word again) if you were telling someone what to carry going into bear country would you rather them carry a sharp stick or a .44? Just wondering.

Well, we have enough black bears up here that there are a fair number of hunters from south of the border coming here to hunt them. So there are enough of them around to be pretty common and so are interactions with them. I am also in a country where you can't carry a handgun but I have shot lots of them, including .44 mags, when I was younger at a gun club. Under those conditions I have not felt the need to carry a handgun for black bear defense in the bush.

Yes, a .44 mag is better than a sharp stick. My point was how much better it is can be very debatable for the points I have mentioned. I do not think the stats on black bear attacks resulting in wounds/death to persons per capita is much different on this side of the border from yours. If it makes a person feel better to carry a handgun and you can do it legally go for it. It is not an ironclad guarantee to a good outcome though.

Bob

 

[BSAGuy]

Glad you're OK.

 

[Ad Astra]

Mr. Mike and others; thanks.

Think I will get a can of bear-be-gone spray. That can be used on rabid animals or anything else as well. Bears were rare sightings in past years, but right now, very frequent.

Though a woman's dog was killed- and a cub was reported with this bear grouping (pack? family?) black bears historically should simply be treated with caution and respect. If a human gets attacked in there, I'll stop going- for a while.

For argument's sake- not that I'll carry it- I have a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt that I load hot (I've had pins back out from the recoil). The round, as you know, can be loaded hotter than .44 Magnum in this pistol. (That would mean about three more pounds in the pack- I was iffy about a 9 oz. book that day).

By coincidence, watched "The Revenant" Saturday night. Sure wouldn't care to be knocked down and worked over like that. What gives me the creeps is that it did sneak up on me from the hammock's blind spot- and I barely heard it. And then, I was nowhere anyone would have found me, far from a trail.


AA

 

[jamesspo]

Well, we have enough black bears up here that there are a fair number of hunters from south of the border coming here to hunt them. So there are enough of them around to be pretty common and so are interactions with them. I am also in a country where you can't carry a handgun but I have shot lots of them, including .44 mags, when I was younger at a gun club. Under those conditions I have not felt the need to carry a handgun for black bear defense in the bush.

Yes, a .44 mag is better than a sharp stick. My point was how much better it is can be very debatable for the points I have mentioned. I do not think the stats on black bear attacks resulting in wounds/death to persons per capita is much different on this side of the border from yours. If it makes a person feel better to carry a handgun and you can do it legally go for it. It is not an ironclad guarantee to a good outcome though.

Bob

Agreed, nothing is a guarantee but I wouldn't be caught in serious black bear country without a firearm and spray. They both have their place, and provide for a layered defense. I carry both a side arm and spray even when I'm hunting and have a 300 Win Mag with me. I'd certainly try to get a rifle shot off if I could, but unless I happen to be walking with the gun at the ready, a rifle is not going to be deployable in time, or at the close distances involved due to having a scope. I keep my scope on 3x in the hopes that I'd have some ability to aim.

Bears are tricky - especially black bears. I've had encounters, and all ended with the bear running away at distance. The real problem is when you run into a bear that's in a predatory mode and stalking you (something much more likely to happen while doing the kinds of behaviors common to hunting - walking slowly/silently through the woods, or just sitting still). Case histories show that once a bear gets determined that you're fair (and safe) game, you've got a problem that the usual tactics (making noise, acting large) probably won't solve. At this point, having bear spray is great, but you'll need a lot of luck on your side and favorable wind conditions for that to be the end game (and to keep from spraying yourself). Depending on the situation, I would probably go for the bear spray first, wind conditions permitting - it's likely to send them running. At that point, I start extracting myself from the area as best I can in the hopes that they run off. If they don't, and they show any sign of continued aggression, it's going to be 300 Win Mag to the boiler room, and a follow-up head shot if I can make it. Handgun is there for when I run out of 300, or if things get too close for that.

 

[Ad Astra]

James; thanks. Interesting.

On bear spray: apparently human spray is stronger; they have to pass "humane" regulation on the amount of oleoresin capsicum.

This is interesting, from
http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/pages/animal-vs-human-spray

"The fact is, animal spray is typically not as strong as human pepper spray. This is because quite simply, it doesn’t need to be. Dogs and other animals have much more sensitive senses of sight and smell, so it takes much less OC (oleoresin capsicum, the active ingredient in pepper spray) to affect them and keep you safe.

(Dog spray is weaker, apparently)

"However, the big difference in bear spray and human pepper spray is the bear spray has to pass tests done by the Environmental Protection Agency, to ensure it’s humane. In terms of strength, bear spray has about 2% CRC (Capsaicin and Related Capsaicinoids) and human spray only has about 1.33% CRC. Bear spray typically can shoot farther than human pepper spray and also often has a wider affected area."

and from here
http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/collections/bears

• "They found his body. He was laying on his back with the Winchester several yards away. It had been fired twice. He was bitten on his head, a single bite through his skull plate crushing his skull and killing him instantly. He never had another second to fire the third round, it happened that quickly."

Buying a can of one of these. Wonder if they have 10% warfare-level stuff?


AA

 

[BobLH]

Agreed, nothing is a guarantee but I wouldn't be caught in serious black bear country without a firearm and spray. They both have their place, and provide for a layered defense. I carry both a side arm and spray even when I'm hunting and have a 300 Win Mag with me. I'd certainly try to get a rifle shot off if I could, but unless I happen to be walking with the gun at the ready, a rifle is not going to be deployable in time, or at the close distances involved due to having a scope. I keep my scope on 3x in the hopes that I'd have some ability to aim.

Bears are tricky - especially black bears. I've had encounters, and all ended with the bear running away at distance. The real problem is when you run into a bear that's in a predatory mode and stalking you (something much more likely to happen while doing the kinds of behaviors common to hunting - walking slowly/silently through the woods, or just sitting still). Case histories show that once a bear gets determined that you're fair (and safe) game, you've got a problem that the usual tactics (making noise, acting large) probably won't solve. At this point, having bear spray is great, but you'll need a lot of luck on your side and favorable wind conditions for that to be the end game (and to keep from spraying yourself). Depending on the situation, I would probably go for the bear spray first, wind conditions permitting - it's likely to send them running. At that point, I start extracting myself from the area as best I can in the hopes that they run off. If they don't, and they show any sign of continued aggression, it's going to be 300 Win Mag to the boiler room, and a follow-up head shot if I can make it. Handgun is there for when I run out of 300, or if things get too close for that.

Look, we do have enough black bear up here in Ontario, 75,000 to 100,000 estimated, to satisfy most people including hunters. We also have moose, deer, coyotes and wolves. Woodland caribou also but they are protected. A 300 mag is a common hunting caliber up here also, not that moose have not been cleanly taken with everything from 30-30 up 458 Win mag. Still no private citizen legally carries a handgun up here and that has not been a huge issue in black bear encounters here. Bear spray is available though. What can I say.

I do not view grizzly bears and polar bears in the same way I view black bears as far as risk of attack goes. They are a very different story.

Bob

 

[jamesspo]

James; thanks. Interesting.

On bear spray: apparently human spray is stronger; they have to pass "humane" regulation on the amount of oleoresin capsicum.

This is interesting, from
http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/pages/animal-vs-human-spray

"The fact is, animal spray is typically not as strong as human pepper spray. This is because quite simply, it doesn’t need to be. Dogs and other animals have much more sensitive senses of sight and smell, so it takes much less OC (oleoresin capsicum, the active ingredient in pepper spray) to affect them and keep you safe.

(Dog spray is weaker, apparently)

"However, the big difference in bear spray and human pepper spray is the bear spray has to pass tests done by the Environmental Protection Agency, to ensure it’s humane. In terms of strength, bear spray has about 2% CRC (Capsaicin and Related Capsaicinoids) and human spray only has about 1.33% CRC. Bear spray typically can shoot farther than human pepper spray and also often has a wider affected area."

and from here
http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/collections/bears

• "They found his body. He was laying on his back with the Winchester several yards away. It had been fired twice. He was bitten on his head, a single bite through his skull plate crushing his skull and killing him instantly. He never had another second to fire the third round, it happened that quickly."

Buying a can of one of these. Wonder if they have 10% warfare-level stuff?


AA

All good stuff. It's hard to pin down what will happen in any given situation from other instances, though.

Here's a viewpoint from the owner of Buffalo Bore (quite experienced with bears) that paints a rather different picture of firearm effectiveness. I'm carrying both (or actually...all three most of the time ).

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=62#9

 

[jamesspo]

Look, we do have enough black bear up here in Ontario, 75,000 to 100,000 estimated, to satisfy most people including hunters. We also have moose, deer, coyotes and wolves. Woodland caribou also but they are protected. A 300 mag is a common hunting caliber up here also, not that moose have not been cleanly taken with everything from 30-30 up 458 Win mag. Still no private citizen legally carries a handgun up here and that has not been a huge issue in black bear encounters here. Bear spray is available though. What can I say.

I do not view grizzly bears and polar bears in the same way I view black bears as far as risk of attack goes. They are a very different story.

Bob

Agreed..you gotta roll with the tools that are available to you. I have handguns available to add to my quill, so I do so, for what it's worth.

 

[mrodgers]

Bear? Even my kids would look up, "There's a bear..." and continue swinging on their swing set while the bear lumbered on through the yard

 

[simon1]

Mike, you may also consider taking someone with you on your woods walking jaunts...preferably somebody a little less spry than you are. Kinda like the old adage about shark attacks while diving: You don't need to be able to swim faster than the shark, you just need to be able to swim faster than your buddy.

 

[Ad Astra]

(PFFTS!!) wipes down monitor

I agree, Mike and thanks ...

Mr. R; for sure, bears are like squirrels in some/many parts. They are startling newcomers here though. It's a novelty we're still assessing.

Going to get a can of 2% spray. Bunch of good general info here:

http://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=411540&forum=5

Giant run-on sentence, but the gist is it works, since you don't flee- and then get run down- since you're busy spraying bear cologne / prey flavoring.


AA

 

[BobLH]

Agreed..you gotta roll with the tools that are available to you. I have handguns available to add to my quill, so I do so, for what it's worth.

Yea, no problem but from where I sit it is a dubious worth.

Bob

 

[garyg]

I've backpacked, at distance and solo in Grizzly country and Black bear country. My concession to the fear was a bell, that only in grizzly areas. I just couldn't justify carrying the 5 pounds or so of the Model 629 when I was cutting down toothbrush handles to save weight. Like the OP's, my encounters with the bears ended in a couple extra heartbeats and the bear's retreat.

I looked it up on the interwebs and there's been around 60 fatal bear attacks since 1900 in all of North America. I stand a better chance of being killed by a dog on the way to the mailbox.

I had never considered day hiking with a hammock, maybe will give it a try - thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Bhugo]

Look, we do have enough black bear up here in Ontario, 75,000 to 100,000 estimated, to satisfy most people including hunters. We also have moose, deer, coyotes and wolves. Woodland caribou also but they are protected. A 300 mag is a common hunting caliber up here also, not that moose have not been cleanly taken with everything from 30-30 up 458 Win mag. Still no private citizen legally carries a handgun up here and that has not been a huge issue in black bear encounters here. Bear spray is available though. What can I say.

I do not view grizzly bears and polar bears in the same way I view black bears as far as risk of attack goes. They are a very different story.

Bob

This is very true. Black bears are much less worrisome. Grizzlies demand a great amount of care when backpacking. I don't worry about black bears in Michigan and I camp a lot. We have tons of the black bears.

 

[Graybeard57]

My only thought about sharing space with bears is this: they can have ALL the space they want. People who befriend bears in the wild have an unfortunate habit of becoming prematurely dead. It's their home, and I'm just visiting, so they are more than welcome to it.

 

[Ad Astra]

I've given it thought, and am going back there this weekend / soon. Only change will be a can of 2% spray, and not lazing about in thickly forested areas with poor visibility. Being snuck up by someone with better woodswalking skills was unnerving!

Would carry the (heavy) Blackhawk in griz country, but not here in the semi rural south. Rather carry more water. Normal lightweight carry piece will apply of course.


AA