Back from the dead, The return of the Naniwa 12k

[Jakebullet]

I was carrying my little girl one morning. I’d been planning to touch up a razor before my morning shave and my Naniwa 12k was in the pocket of the robe I was wearing.
My little one reached into my pocket, pulled out the stone an dropped the stone onto the rug where it split neatly in two.
I threw the two halves of the stone in a drawer and hadn’t considered it since.

That was nearly two years ago, and I’ve been honing on slates, a coticule and a jnat ever since. I’ve been developing my honing skills during this time and learning to get more and more from the stones.

But this morning I went to my rock drawer to touch up my razor before a shave and happened to notice one of the broken halves.
I thought ‘why not’, so I gave it a quick lapping to clean it up.

In the past I’d usually given a razor 25 or so laps on the Naniwa, but today I thought I’d try it under running water like I do with my coti and slates and stop when the razor sticks fast to the stone.

I got to 100 laps, (equivalent probably to about 50 laps as I was using half a stone) but still no magnetism.
So I stopped there and stropped on linen and leather and gave it a go.

I was interested to see what kind of edge it could give me after almost 2 years of using naturals.

Lathered with a Tabac shave stick and got going.

Whist it felt very effective and gave a great all over shave it didn’t feel quite as silky smooth and efficient as my jnat, slates and coticule edges.

Areas like atg on neck, chin and top lip are where the difference between good and great edges are most felt, and I could feel the edge was a touch below my usual results with rocks although it still felt like a very good edge.

But then I rinsed the last of the lather off and braced myself for the burning coal that is my alum block, only to find it surprisingly cool and easy almost everywhere on my face save for the odd stingy bit.

That’s the kindest alum application I’ve had in living memory, it usually burns my face off. I had a very soothing splash of lucky tiger aftershave and was done.

The shave is excellent, very smooth, extremely close and my skin feels lovely.

I’m going to have a play with the broken Naniwa and see what happens.

Id noticed some nice looking white slurry as I was lapping it with a diamond plate so I might try experimenting with the slurry and dilutions etc and see where that takes me.

I’m glad I didn’t just throw it away once it was broken and its nice to have it back in the land of the living.

 

[captaincaed]

Synthetic stones (good ones) are a bit under-appreciated I think. They're vanilla. They're like air in the sharpening world, just there. But vanilla pods come from an orchid that's pollinated by one special species of bee, are picked before ripening and matured for several months before consumption. Vanilla is still pretty frickin' cool.

 

[Jakebullet]

Synthetic stones (good ones) are a bit under-appreciated I think. They're vanilla. They're like air in the sharpening world, just there. But vanilla pods come from an orchid that's pollinated by one special species of bee, are picked before ripening and matured for several months before consumption. Vanilla is still pretty frickin' cool.

Wow who knew? Great info thanks for the response

 

[Ravenonrock]

12k Naniwa is all I know. All my stones are synthetic, Naniwa SS. I read so much about naturals, the differences and fabulous edges. I’m curious of course. At the same time the results I have gotten from the beginning were good and continue to improve as my skills develop. I get edges that I find very comfortable and efficient, smooth and sharp. For now I’m content…but those Ark’s.

 

[JPO]

Mine broke too. I still keep it around, even after I got a replacement stone.

 

[Jakebullet]

Mine broke too. I still keep it around, even after I got a replacement stone.

Yeah that diagonal break is pretty much identical to mine, it’s a sickener, but both pieces are still usable and because my stone is already broken it makes me feel free to push it in new ways. The slurry I raised when lapping was quite thick, I have a good feeling that I I may be able to use it to remove 1k scratches from a bevel set then dilute to finish on it.

 

[bluesman 7]

A while ago I realized that if my 12k was half as big I wouldn't miss the real estate very much. Finishers don't need to be very big.

 

[SilverGeezer]

I am a little more than a year into my honing adventure, and I find that every time I visit a stone that I have moved on from, I find better results than before. I can pick up subtle changes in feed back that I never noticed before, and I am getting wonderful edges with a lot of different stones. With practice comes learning. I think a smaller finisher works well because the short X strokes for me work better for a polished finish.

 

[captaincaed]

Mine broke too. I still keep it around, even after I got a replacement stone.

View attachment 1409477

It's not broken, it's an epic nagura!

 

[SilverGeezer]

That just added $100 to the value.

 

[Tomo]

Is it possible to glue it back together with super glue?

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Not so surprising, most folks only use about 4inches of an 8-inch stone, (watch some honing videos). A short stone forces you to use all the stone, the same 4 inches.

For best results with the 12k, add an extra layer of tape and make a micro bevel in 3-4 laps, no slurry on a clean freshly lapped half stone.

The 12k is way more aggressive than folks think and will easily remove 1k stria, and a super finisher.

Google 12k Chip Removes/Bevel Set.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Is it possible to glue it back together with super glue?

Yeah but then you always have that thin glued line where the stone is just slightly tougher and lapping leaves a faint ridge. I would say it is okay to do that with a bevel setter or a coarse repair stone, but IMHO and YMMV, the best use for broken 12k stones is for slurry stones. A big piece, over half size, can just be used as a short finisher. Now me, I like a long and wide stone, period. I like lots of honing real estate. But I have to say, all my truly great edges make use of at least a few VERY SHORT x strokes, like 3 or 4 inches travel on the stone while sliding the usual distance sideways, with very light pressure, after the pull strokes. It simply works. And it is quite possible to do the entire finish on a short (within reason) stone, if you don't mind that it takes a lot longer. MORE than twice as long, for a half length stone. Try it and you will see what I mean.

 

[JPO]

Not so surprising, most folks only use about 4inches of an 8-inch stone, (watch some honing videos). A short stone forces you to use all the stone, the same 4 inches.

For best results with the 12k, add an extra layer of tape and make a micro bevel in 3-4 laps, no slurry on a clean freshly lapped half stone.

The 12k is way more aggressive than folks think and will easily remove 1k stria, and a super finisher.

Google 12k Chip Removes/Bevel Set.

I did more or less the same thing with one of the pieces. I did not remove any chips, but took it from bevel set to finish. I convexed one side. Used it with a little pressure. I joined the edge an finished on the flat side. It went surprisingly fast. This was a 5/8 full hollow, so heavier grinds would probably take more time.
A convex surface enables you to use more pressure to start with without digging in to the stone. You will end up with a large micro/secondary bevel when you finish on the flat site. You also increase the cutting efficiency because you are working on a smaller surface area. It will probably not start any trend, but it works really well.
Flipping sides of the stone also works to avoid creating a false ede. You do not need to join the edge if this is done.

 

[JPO]

I was carrying my little girl one morning. I’d been planning to touch up a razor before my morning shave and my Naniwa 12k was in the pocket of the robe I was wearing.
My little one reached into my pocket, pulled out the stone an dropped the stone onto the rug where it split neatly in two.
I threw the two halves of the stone in a drawer and hadn’t considered it since.

That was nearly two years ago, and I’ve been honing on slates, a coticule and a jnat ever since. I’ve been developing my honing skills during this time and learning to get more and more from the stones.

But this morning I went to my rock drawer to touch up my razor before a shave and happened to notice one of the broken halves.
I thought ‘why not’, so I gave it a quick lapping to clean it up.
View attachment 1409232
In the past I’d usually given a razor 25 or so laps on the Naniwa, but today I thought I’d try it under running water like I do with my coti and slates and stop when the razor sticks fast to the stone.

I got to 100 laps, (equivalent probably to about 50 laps as I was using half a stone) but still no magnetism.
So I stopped there and stropped on linen and leather and gave it a go.

I was interested to see what kind of edge it could give me after almost 2 years of using naturals.

Lathered with a Tabac shave stick and got going.

Whist it felt very effective and gave a great all over shave it didn’t feel quite as silky smooth and efficient as my jnat, slates and coticule edges.

Areas like atg on neck, chin and top lip are where the difference between good and great edges are most felt, and I could feel the edge was a touch below my usual results with rocks although it still felt like a very good edge.

But then I rinsed the last of the lather off and braced myself for the burning coal that is my alum block, only to find it surprisingly cool and easy almost everywhere on my face save for the odd stingy bit.

That’s the kindest alum application I’ve had in living memory, it usually burns my face off. I had a very soothing splash of lucky tiger aftershave and was done.

The shave is excellent, very smooth, extremely close and my skin feels lovely.

I’m going to have a play with the broken Naniwa and see what happens.

Id noticed some nice looking white slurry as I was lapping it with a diamond plate so I might try experimenting with the slurry and dilutions etc and see where that takes me.

I’m glad I didn’t just throw it away once it was broken and its nice to have it back in the land of the living.

Both Ralf Aust and Wacker uses the super stone 12 to finish their razors. I am not sure if this finishing method is done on all the razor. My Ralf Aust was definitly not finished on a 12 K stone.
The Thuringian stones are definitely not flat. They are either dished from use, or in fact convex like the brown stone in the first photo.
Wacker work station

Ralf Aust

 

[Jakebullet]

I shaved with the Naniwa edges razor again this morning.
It gave a great smooth shave but again just didn’t feel as sharp as my stone edges.
With the shave fresh in my mind I opted to put a fresh coticule edge onto this razor and compare the feel in the morning.
The coticule, like the broken Naniwa is small. About 5x1 inches.

I honed about 75 laps under trickling water until it stuck, then I stropped and tried a HHT.
It was ok but not great so I went back to the stone under trickling water. Again after about 75 it stuck fast. I stropped again on linen and leather and this time the HHT was much better.
I know conventional wisdom says coticules are around the 8-10k mark but I have a feeling mine may be better than that, my slates too.
With a synthetic 12k shave fresh in my mind, let’s see what tomorrow’s Coticule shave feels like.

 

[Jakebullet]

I had a very early start for work today, but finished early too so I didn’t get to shave until about 1pm.
I’d already showered so I gave my face a good soaking in warm water and used a good finger ful of Proraso Green preshave.
The later shave meant more and thicker stubble as I usually shave around 9am so I was unsure what to expect from the bright new coticule edge on my razor.
My first pass felt easier than yesterday. Smoother, closer, easier, quieter even with a thicker beard.
Not by a million miles it has to be said, but enough to be noticeable.
What does this mean?
Is the shave easier because the coti exceeds the 12k Naniwa in terms of a finer grit size? Or is it smoother because the opposite is true?
My instincts tell me that the coti made a very slightly sharper edge.
It cut easier and more quickly and pulled less, though both left a pretty perfect post shave feel.
It’s entirely possible that the 12k is intrinsically finer and I simply did a better job on the coti I have no way of knowing.

 

[Frank Shaves]

I really enjoy my Naniwa 12k. I accidentally dropped mine the second time I used it, chipping two of the corners. I keep thinking about cutting it down to 6 x 2 inches but still have not done so.

 

[Jakebullet]

Todays shave, my second on my coti edge wasn’t brilliant. It was good enough but slightly tuggy on the neck. I didn’t like it.
So with the coti and the Naniwa edges fresh in my mind I took the razor to my kitta Jnat to compare.
I raised a nice yellow Tomo slurry and got started.

I like to lap the stone lightly after every 1-3 uses depending on how it feels. Todays surface was freshly lapped.

The stone feels very smooth while honing and gives a nice shhhhhh sound.

I hold the stone in hand as I hone, it makes controlling the slurry easier and I can balance the contact of the steel and stone better.
As the slurry feels smoother I add a spray and a half of water. I usually do this 2-3 times depending on how I feel it’s going and finish maybe 10 laps on a thin misty slurry.

I stropped on my Scrupleworks linen and leather.

The leather is getting a nicer feel to it daily, it’s hard to put it into words, it’s like stropping on a super thin film of melted chocolate.
So let’s see what tomorrows shave brings. This little old Shuredge razor has always taken a great edge though I’ve never used in on the jnat so I’m interested to see how it compares to the Naniwa and Coti.

 

[Kyle89]

Revisited the Naniwa 12k as well due to reading this thread and shaved with an edge off of it this morning. Had a pretty excellent shave but I still prefer an edge finished off of my Coticule just a little bit.

My conclusion- the 12k edge feels fantastic but for me and my face/technique it's a bit quicker to the punch to point out lapses in technique. I feel like my Coti edge fits in better with my own sensibilities and is a better match for me at this point in time. As my honing and shaving technique keeps improving over time it will be interesting if this changes though. I've only been at this for a little over a year now, both in shaving and honing.

Still, absolutely cannot complain about my shave this morning. Had a bit more aftershave burn but definitely chalking that down to technique and not the stone itself. I can, however, pull off using my stash of Pinaud splashes with minimal burn a lot more consistently with my Coticule edges without lacking in closeness.