Arkansas Love...Let's see those Arks!
- Thread starter David
- Start date
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
The Ark would make the diamond plate go way, way, way faster.
I've lapped a few arks on a DMT... didn't kill the plate for me, but I assume it depends on how you do it.
That said, if you need to remove a lot of material... get some loose abrasive (SIC powder). 60grit SIC powder on a big flat surface will be much faster than a DMT, and you can lean into it and grind away with no worries of damaging your $80 diamond plate. Then go to the DMT or sandpaper, or whatever to clean the stone up afterwards. It'll still take quite awhile... might be worthwhile to grab some finer SIC powder (200-300 probably would be good) to follow the coarse stuff, but I never tried.
SIC is hard to find local. Just order it online.
That said, if you need to remove a lot of material... get some loose abrasive (SIC powder). 60grit SIC powder on a big flat surface will be much faster than a DMT, and you can lean into it and grind away with no worries of damaging your $80 diamond plate. Then go to the DMT or sandpaper, or whatever to clean the stone up afterwards. It'll still take quite awhile... might be worthwhile to grab some finer SIC powder (200-300 probably would be good) to follow the coarse stuff, but I never tried.
SIC is hard to find local. Just order it online.
I'm 99% sure I didn't see it. Nice score.
- Thread starter
- #88
8x2 Rosy Red
That’s a thing of beauty. I can’t believe nobody really talks about Washitas for bevel setting more, the Washita to hard ark combo makes one of the greatest edges ever.
I managed to get 15000 whet and dry which worked well . Just took my third shave this morning different razor . Great shave it felt very much like coticule edge but against the grain was better I do like the Arkansas I held of buying one for years but very pleased I eventually got one . It seems from what I have read on forums the Arkansas are pretty consistent
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
You mean the hard black finishing stones, right, like the Black Hard, Surgical Hard, Translucent Hard?
The nomenclature and grading systems are nothing if not a pain, but my understanding is there are several grades of "hard" Arks, but not all are even remotely finishing stones. Here's Dan's version of it.
I'm pretty sure you know all this, but maybe someone else won't. Personally, I find it very confusing, and I find it difficult to describe the Ark I'm using in a way I know will make sense to other guys.
To make it worse, this isn't the only system and vendors sometimes use their own or one new to me. For instance my Double Convex Ark 8x3 from Superior Shave has on the hard side a Black
Translucent Ark.
I'm looking around for a nice Washita. There are plenty around including one which may or may not be suitable but it's sold all over the place, new, linked. Mostly I don't find any new ones. My understanding is the mine, owned by Norton, is not being actively mined at present.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
A little goes a long way.
I use only the 320 and the 600 on my Arks.
That means I have a lifetime supply of 320 and 600 + enough for infinite lifetimes in several other grits. Buy a smaller amount than you think you need. Just use a little pinch.
After not too long the SIC causes you to need a new marble stone in my experience.
Oh, wear safety glasses. You don't want any SIC in your eyes.
Happy shaves,
Jim
You did a decent job of explaining it for sure. The bottom line is density determines the stone behavior, not any type of coloring. Manufacturers terminologies don’t all line up cleanly in terms of where the cutoffs for “hardness” for different stones should be, but the legal labeling requirements I believe say specific gravity above 2.
5 makes it “hard” and below 2.5 makes it “soft”. When I said hard for sure a better term would’ve been to say going from Washita to a “finisher Ark” is a great progression.
Real washitas are sort of sought after by any woodworkers using oil stones. For all the confusion and marketing differences among Arkansas stones, enthusiasts will tell you the best washitas or the only washitas that matter are vintage Norton/pike. They can cut very fast for arks with pressure and thin oil, and they can actually finish to a (passable) shaving edge with no pressure, thick oil, and a broken in surface. For woodworking it’s a true one stone solution if you don’t own tools above HRC 60.
For a more budget friendly option I’ve actually had good luck with a KB-8 “queer creek” stone I’ve run on oil and water. It’s a natural sandstone from a Norton Ohio mine with some kind of god awful particle size, but I’ve actually lapped one side down to 500W/D and been able to finish under running water and shave just fine- way more than adequate to jump to a finishing Ark. the rough side still cuts “slow” by coarse modern waterstone or diamond plate standards, but it peels off metal way faster than a modern soft ark IME. People might look at you crazy if you tell them you finished a blade on a “queer creek” to “hard Arkansas” progression, but man $20 is $20 and those stones are cheap.
Most woodworkers will tell you that Norton/Pike are the only Washita's PERIOD. They generally feel that everything out of any other mine being sold as Washita is in fact a Soft Arkansas that the other mines are trying to substitute because actual Washita material thus far has only been found in Norton's mine.
timwcic
"Look what I found"
That is a fact. I purchased once a few years ago. One pound of the courser and 1/2 pound of the finer grits. I have lapped a lot of hard rocks and still have well over half left. I lap on thick salvage glass from estate sales and flea markets. Use a few times and into recycling they go. Never knew about the eyes, never had a problem
timwcic
"Look what I found"
Thats a spicy meatball. Very nice
Queer Creek stones are a forgotten stone but fun to play with. A am biased towards them, my soft Arks see much more use than they do. I will have to change that
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Lol wow. I thought I had a bunch of those back in the day. To be fair I literally NEVER bought one... just got them in lots.
Last I saw, 8x2x1" ones were still being cut and sold (they say product of Mexico now because apparently Norton sends raw material there and Mexico factories cut it). And they're REALLY cheap... like $15-20 each.
https://www.amazon.com/Norton-61463685730-8x2x3-Clear-Benchstones/dp/B00DSW6TMA
They call em "Clear Creek" now... I'm sure you can guess why.
Anyway, just snagged this hard arkansas. Hoping it's got a little translucency once I get it cleaned up.
Last I saw, 8x2x1" ones were still being cut and sold (they say product of Mexico now because apparently Norton sends raw material there and Mexico factories cut it). And they're REALLY cheap... like $15-20 each.
https://www.amazon.com/Norton-61463685730-8x2x3-Clear-Benchstones/dp/B00DSW6TMA
They call em "Clear Creek" now... I'm sure you can guess why.
Anyway, just snagged this hard arkansas. Hoping it's got a little translucency once I get it cleaned up.
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Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Bought this one for under $5. Supposed to be a new stone (NOS) in an old box. I think it is a Washita, but I could be wrong.
Great info. Thanks.
I think those boxes were used for carborundum based stones, but it could be a washita in the box or I may be mistaken. Got any pictures of the stone?
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Here's the vendor's photo of the stone.
From what I've seen of these Norton stones and the similar manufactured stones, and, trust me, I'm a beginner with these, and no sort of expertise is claimed or implied, the manufactured Nortons in boxes like these say on the top of the box that they're "Oil Filled."
Like this one (below).
I'm not going to be broken hearted either way, but I hope mine is a soft Ark or a Washita and not manufactured.
