His brand targets the facebook demographic. Then there is the whole club business model where his customers are buying many soaps and not just one here and there. I have a single Kaizen soap from A&E and won't be trying any others. If A&E was the last artisan soap maker left i'd go back to Proraso.
Ariana & Evans Ultima base - anyone try it?
- Thread starter steelwindmachine
- Start date
I’m with you. I get good shaves with proraso when I can find a tub on sale for five or six dollars in a discount store. Sone of his soaps are selling for 28 not including the shipping. It’s not economical.
I just can’t justify in my mind that price for soap. And then, when you include the fact that he probably had the soaps made in the Philippines, using mostly locally sourced ingredients seems to be way overpriced.
He seems like a really nice guy, but I can’t help but feel his soaps are overpriced. Plus, I don’t care for the whole Facebook group promotion thing. He’s not giving those people a fair price in my mind. Seems like he’s just testing the market to see how much people will pay. He’s reached my limit.
I think He did use oleo originally to manufacture his soaps. However, he switched to using a woman in the Philippines. I believe he is part Filipino.
Some people are claiming he manufactures some soap himself in the US but I find that doubtful. Takes some trial and error and experience before you can start producing a quality shave soap.
Just found this thread. I don't know how people get their information but Peter absolutely makes his own soaps and formulates them from start to finish. He began and still makes soaps in Connecticut, too, as well as the soaps being made in the Philippines. He literally began in his kitchen -- and at often posted from there and then from his garage as he grew and grew with the success of his product. Period. In fact, throughout the last few years he has often posted photos and videos of his operation, including showing new and larger equipment as he bought it and grew, and has showed how he developed his formulas, scents, etc. You can even visit his facility in Connecticut.
I find it a bit incredible that as a self-made small business guy who made a good product he gets lambasted for having a Facebook page for some of his loyal customers (who often, though, verge into fanboys, which, to me, can actually be annoying) and a discount program, and yet corporate soap makers are lauded by comparison. I don't find his aesthetics to my taste, but the soap quality is there. All in all, he's a guy who simply has made a good product and succeeded.
Since he developed Kaizen, and then Kaizen 2 and now Kaizen 2e, it's been a staple of my shaving den. Great soap, as good as (and usually cheaper) than some of the artisanal soaps out there and that I also purchase. To return to the actual point of this thread, Ultima is slightly different (a bit thicker but it doe shave better post-shave feel) and I like it a lot but not as much as Kaizen.
I find it a bit incredible that as a self-made small business guy who made a good product he gets lambasted for having a Facebook page for some of his loyal customers (who often, though, verge into fanboys, which, to me, can actually be annoying) and a discount program, and yet corporate soap makers are lauded by comparison. I don't find his aesthetics to my taste, but the soap quality is there. All in all, he's a guy who simply has made a good product and succeeded.
Since he developed Kaizen, and then Kaizen 2 and now Kaizen 2e, it's been a staple of my shaving den. Great soap, as good as (and usually cheaper) than some of the artisanal soaps out there and that I also purchase. To return to the actual point of this thread, Ultima is slightly different (a bit thicker but it doe shave better post-shave feel) and I like it a lot but not as much as Kaizen.
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Ultima's products have not been receiving much positive feedback. I was excited to try the Kaizen soaps, but unfortunately, every variant I used caused a burning sensation on my face.
I don't think Peter has a comprehensive understanding of chemistry or personally makes the soaps. He's primarily a salesman who relies on others to manufacture the products for him. If he had the necessary expertise, he would likely avoid creating soaps with harsh fragrances.
Unfortunately, the A&E soaps I've used burned my skin so bad, I couldn't shave the next day!
So my overall experience is it default, limited.
In terms of making a good soap base, it's not at all difficult!
I started making my own soap after some research and got 90% of the way on my first go!
A few tweaks after that and my base competes with the highly regarded artisan soaps, as also confirmed by a lot of the guys that use my soap.
What gets me about all these artisans is the cost! They are wildly overpriced and I find it sad when I see good folks paying these amounts.
If A&E is making soap in the Philippines, the price should reflect that because the labour cost is far lower than US and the raw material cost is literally at a FRACTION!
$28 for a soap is just insulting their loyal customers!!
Even if they change out one ingredient for another, the soap can still only add up to 100%. So it's not like the costs go up astronomically.
Majority of artisans are increasing the price based on hype of bases.
There are only so many things one can change around to derive a soap base!
So my overall experience is it default, limited.
In terms of making a good soap base, it's not at all difficult!
I started making my own soap after some research and got 90% of the way on my first go!
A few tweaks after that and my base competes with the highly regarded artisan soaps, as also confirmed by a lot of the guys that use my soap.
What gets me about all these artisans is the cost! They are wildly overpriced and I find it sad when I see good folks paying these amounts.
If A&E is making soap in the Philippines, the price should reflect that because the labour cost is far lower than US and the raw material cost is literally at a FRACTION!
$28 for a soap is just insulting their loyal customers!!
Even if they change out one ingredient for another, the soap can still only add up to 100%. So it's not like the costs go up astronomically.
Majority of artisans are increasing the price based on hype of bases.
There are only so many things one can change around to derive a soap base!
If I remember correctly, he posted a video explaining that the production in Philippines is only covering Asian customers, while the production in USA is covering the rest of the world.
Thanks, I forgot about that video.
Although A&E soap is being sold for $24 in India, made in Philippines.
Still seems very overpriced to me!
Stirling is made in the US and costs $15/6oz...I wonder how they do it.
When a corporation like haslinger offers a similar soap for 9 dollars on amazon where shipping is free with 35 dollar purchase and he’s offering a similar soap for $28 not including shipping you’re gonna get criticism. That’s 3 x the price.
Stirling literally charges half that. Criticism of his prices and soap is justified imo.
I don’t know of any other soap maker, who makes their own soap who outsourced their production to another country like the Philippines. It seems an odd thing to do, for an artisan small batch soap maker.
All of the other artisans make their soap themselves except for him.
Not to mention, if you’re using locally sourced ingredients, namely, coconut oil, seems unreasonable, to not just make the soap and ship the finished product to customers. shipping from the Philippines, due to cost of labor will also be cheaper.
Maybe he makes a few soaps in Connecticut, but I’d be surprised if the bulk of his soap is not made and sourced from products in the Philippines.
A few years ago, there was an out cry when it was determined that Phoenix shaving soap was lying about the actual ingredients in their soap. My point is there’s no one really Holding soap makers, accountable for what they claim is in their soap an where it’s made.
I don't know much about how, or where Peter makes his soaps, but Ultima Tobacco Road gave me some burning sensation. No redness, but it was uncomfortable.
As a soap base it is very good, a bit better than K2e.
K2e is not a soap iny top5 tbh.
As a soap base it is very good, a bit better than K2e.
K2e is not a soap iny top5 tbh.
I can’t tell you the exact number of shaves, but it’s definitely a softer soap and goes quicker than something triple milled.
It was well known in the shaving community that A&E sourced their soap from Oleo shave works. Peter chose the fragrance, but he never made the soaps when he started. That was known. Not sure why you believe that Peter has always made his soaps.
I believe he’s part Filipino, which is the reason he chose to have his soap made in the Philippines, that and the fact that it’s much cheaper to get ingredients and pay for labor there.
That's correct about Oleo and the beginning stages of Ariana and Evans.
He said on his videos that the Philippines shop is to supply other parts of the world market, not the US.
I for one thought it was very brilliant and possibly risky business expansion.
Correct, as to the beginning about Oleo. Still interested in folks’ views about Ultima. Which was the point of this thread (and not vilifying the man and the company).
Pity to hear that this is still an issue.
I have only used St Barts (k2e) and that gives a horrible burning sensation on my skin (as well as getting a headache from the fragrance). I think he needs to lay off the amount of fragrance oil that he's using in the soaps he makes.
I've used soaps from every other major artisan/soap manufacturer and have never had an issue with burning or sensitivity.
His soap is over priced compared to other soap makers. There are several other artisans who sell similar soap for half the price of his. That was the point, not to vilify him.
I’m not the only person who’s noted the cost of shaving soap, getting out of the line with the cost of the ingredients. There is another YouTuber, who does a lot of reviews who’s expressed the same commentary. In fact, he stopped purchasing and reviewing soaps, for that reason, plus he’s very busy.
(Long response, but not, I hope a rant).
Well, then, this is a whole different matter — the endless one of why pay more for any soap when you can get some solid soaps for around $10-$15? In actuality, of course, a vast number of words are spent on B&B praising soaps that make A&E look, if anything, either right in the same league or cheap at the price. The current A&E line has three basic bases: Pedro Fiasco base at $15/puck, Kaizen at $20; and Ultima at $25. That’s pretty darn middle of the road, comparatively — or cheaper. Just to take a few soaps that are exceedingly popular on this website — both artisanal and larger companies, including the highly popular hard English soaps, but also, say the Castle Forbes cream — as comparators: Grooming Dept $29/puck; Saponificio Varesino $30-$50/puck; Castle Forbes cream $44/puck; Truefitt & Hill $38/puck; GFT $25; Martin de Candre $70/puck; Tallow + Steel $23/puck; Declaration Grooming $22/puck; Abbate Y La Mantra $36/puck; Gentlemen's Nod, $27/puck; Wholly Kaw $30/puck; Ethos $36 or $40/puck. And I could go on: some Zingari at $30; Henri et Victoria at $27; House of Mammoth $25…..etc etc. (Pulled most of these prices from Maggard’s and within any company there could be slightly more or less expensive soaps.)
Some people — heck, many people — are willing to pay more than, say, $10-$15 for a soap/cream because they do find more expensive bases to be better, or to smell particularly nice or provide a combination of quality/scent. The soaps I listed all have their fanatics and can often be found, some even day after day, on shave of the day or in other threads here. My preference is for the quality of the shave and, to me, A&E is in my top rank, along with Canadian Shave, T+S, MWF, SV, Grooming Dept, ADP ($90 a container!). I also like, for instance, the Stirling beeswax unscented, but not other Stirling soaps, though I think the beeswax is, for me, a touch below A&E Kaizen. I’ve tried other $10-$15 soaps but none of them clicked; so, for me, a Wholly Kaw (at $30) or an SV at $40 is indeed worth it. I get great shaves and even, at top end, probably pay about $1-$2 shave. I suspect I pay more for potato chips on a monthly basis than for shaves.
So, it’s all personal. In today's world, one can find darned good soaps at nearly all price points. We each can enjoy trying to find something we think works better. It’s the same debate as to why pay $400 for a brush when a good synthetic can be had for $25 or why pay $600 for, say, a Rocnel or Wolfman razor when other razors are a fraction of the cost. Folks pay top dollars sometimes because they’re searching for what, for them, is the ne plus ultra and also because they could have the funds to indulge at some price points that more expensive. Long posting but the bottom line is that A&E is, I believe, not a particularly expensive soap and, yet, for many (like me) it gives me great shaves, time and time again. I'm sure yet many others, perhaps more, have used A&E and said, "meh, not for me." Everyone's mileage differs, in short. To me, the point of this thread was to try to evaluate a particular base being put out by one particular and fairly popular artisanal soap maker. Still would like to see more responses as to that.
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