Another "Tea Thread"...

[Pete]

After a growing distaste for the "same old, same old" in coffee, I decided to give loose teas a try. My experience with tea is limited to the bagged varieties offered at local grocery store, the tea offerings at my local Asian restaurant, and a few pots of "proper tea" while visiting the UK some years ago. I've read through Scotto's "Fine Teas" thread, and found it very informative. As per recommendations there, I paid "specialteas.com" a visit. I purchased a 4-cup Chatsford teapot, as well as a sample pack of their teas, along with a couple very small quantities of some black teas.

I suppose my biggest question is, do most teas taste like "warm water"? In my limited experience, most of my teas have been less than flavorful. If/when I add sugar, they taste like sugared water. The only decent teas I've had were in the UK, as well as the offerings at my local Asian restaurant. In other words, the only teas I've enjoyed thus far are the teas I didn't make myself. So, is it the tea/method I'm using, or the simple fact that I have no idea what I'm doing?

Secondly, I am looking to replace my morning coffee with tea. Can someone recommend a variety that can provide a comparable "lift" (if there is such a thing)? I could go on-and-on with the questions right now, but I'm thinking this post is already longer than it needs to be.

Thanks,
Pete

 

[Scotto]

Most assuredly "no" to your question of should they taste like water. Perhaps you might try a good English Breakfast blend to start, or something similar to that. Brewed with the correct amount of tea and boiling water, it should make quite a robust brew. Once you decide whether you like tea, the sky is then the limit.

 

[mpmartinez99]

Most assuredly "no" to your question of should they taste like water. Perhaps you might try a good English Breakfast blend to start, or something similar to that. Brewed with the correct amount of tea and boiling water, it should make quite a robust brew. Once you decide whether you like tea, the sky is then the limit.

+1. I am not a tea expert by any means, but I agree that is certanly shouldn't taste like warm water. My wife loves tea, and she always buys some new/exotic tea home when she finds it. I (unwillingly) have tried a bunch of them, and I especially love Celestial Seasonings. It's not as exotic and daring as some blends and loose teas, but if prepared right, they tast fantastic. Also, I love Earl Grey tea in the morning. Gets me going. As with all things, YMMV. Hope this helps a little.

 

[ouch]

If it tastes like water, you've doen one or more things wrong.

I'll defer to the toodlemeister, who should be chiming in momentarilly.

 

[Hobbesoxon]

Happy days, another tea thread! With the crushing inevitability of night following day, another Hobbes response in a tea-thread...

...and a few pots of "proper tea" while visiting the UK some years ago.

I'd be careful with that. Everyone thinks that English people have great taste in tea, and that our tea here is wonderful - surely an opinion based on our historical reputation. True, if you go to the Ritz and take afternoon tea, then you'll find some good stuff. However, the unfortunate truth is that, generally speaking, modern English people know as much about tea as everyone else (i.e., not much). You can easily walk into a fancy-looking shop that sells tea in any city here (e.g., Whittards of Chelsea), expecting a good tea, and you're going to get something which is overpriced and very average.

I suppose my biggest question is, do most teas taste like "warm water"? In my limited experience, most of my teas have been less than flavorful. If/when I add sugar, they taste like sugared water.

Good tea tastes GREAT. It's like a revelation. It's not something subtle that only experts who have been drinking tea for decades can sense, it's something obvious, delicious, and in-your-face. If it doesn't taste SUPERB, then you've (unfortunately) fallen into the old trap of paying lots of money for average tea. I know this feeling well, it used to happen to me all the time. When you've had good tea, you know about it. So, you need some recommendations on places to get good tea - and that's where your friendly neighbourhood B&B folk can help.

In other words, the only teas I've enjoyed thus far are the teas I didn't make myself. So, is it the tea/method I'm using, or the simple fact that I have no idea what I'm doing?

It's the tea. Guaranteed. Superb tea still tastes darned fine even with the most unorthodox brewing technique (within reason). So, don't worry that it's your fault.

Secondly, I am looking to replace my morning coffee with tea. Can someone recommend a variety that can provide a comparable "lift" (if there is such a thing)? I could go on-and-on with the questions right now, but I'm thinking this post is already longer than it needs to be.

You can get some serious morning tea that will knock the spots off coffee. I like coffee (very much in fact - Kenyan peaberry is my favourite), but to me it's completely one-dimensional compared to the variability and nuance of seriously decent tea. You can store some teas for decades, and they mature like fine wines. The zing you get from an ancient tea, correctly matured, is like nothing else. Similarly, there are delicious unaged (and unageable) teas that will really grab you by the tastebuds and not let go.

The next big question is getting into good tea. You can't jump too far too quickly, or you'll just be wasting your money. I remember splashing out loads of cash on expensive teas at the start of my tea hobby (it's TAD, who am I kidding) and not really "getting them". They tasted as good as some of the more modestly priced (yet still decent) teas that were recommended to me. Like getting into wine, you wouldn't jump into a $600 Chateau Lafite straight away - you'd work your way up from $20-$50 bottles.

Where to start? For a breakfast tea, you're probably looking for a kick. I like a good hongcha (red/black tea) in the morning, or a pu'er. Check out Jing Tea if you're UK-based, or Houde if you're US-based. They're both well-reputed, and I have no connection to either.

For that after-dinner tea (a classical Chinese digestif, and reputed to reduce the amount of fat that one's body absorbs from the food), head for pu'er or Wuyi rock tea ("Wuyi yancha"). The latter is roasted and dark, and is a great transition tea for people who are accustomed to dark, full-roasted coffees.

For lighter times, try dancong ("single bush") wulong or a Taiwanese wulong.

Most of all, enjoy the journey, and congratulate yourself on opening up a door into a whole new world.

Be careful, though. Before you know it, you'll have storage shelves in your study straining under the weight of dozens and dozens of pu'er disks...


Toodlepip,

Hobbes

 

[Pete]

Most assuredly "no" to your question of should they taste like water. Perhaps you might try a good English Breakfast blend to start, or something similar to that. Brewed with the correct amount of tea and boiling water, it should make quite a robust brew. Once you decide whether you like tea, the sky is then the limit.

This is good news. It was actually YOUR recommendation that led me to specialteas.com, Scotto. I decided on one of their samplers, although I was hesitant to begin with their "Fine Tea Sampler", only because it included more light teas than dark. While I may eventually find I prefer the light teas, I felt it was best to stay close to what I know so that I can make a "uneducated comparison", so to speak. I settled on their "Best Seller Sampler", as their "Blended Sampler" was not available.

The Chatsford teapot was a no-brainer, given the price. I actually had a more difficult time deciding on the capacity than the teapot itself. Given the construction of these pots (or as I understand it) I logically assume that if you want to steep only 4 cups, you don't do it in a 6 or 8 cup teapot. Is this correct?

Thanks for the encouraging reply!

-Pete

 

[Scotto]

You can brew a smaller amount of tea in a larger tea pot, as long as the water to leaf ratio is ok. Also remember that the definition of "cups" in coffee and tea-speak can vary - often it is more like 4 oz, so be careful.

Looking at the sampler you got:
# Ceylon Kenilworth (No. 317)
# Earl Grey De La Creme (No. 821)
# China Fine Lung Ching (No. 523)
# Fine Irish Breakfast (No. 803)
# Masala Chai (No. 920)

The Ceylon and Irish Breakfast (and the chai) should be very robust brews at >= 1 tsp. of leaf per 6 oz of water brought to a full boil and steeped for 5 minutes. The longjing needs a different treatment, and is not a good breakfast tea, being quite light. The Earl Grey you can treat like the Irish Breakfast, but I found that particular tea quite offputting.

Good luck, and ask more questions.

 

[Hobbesoxon]

Scotto certaintly knows his leaves.

One thing I would add is that quite a few would advise using the smallest pot that you can get away with, in order to keep the water as hot as possible. It's a bit like shaving, in fact, where the lather-bowl and whatnot are kept warm throughout.

The Chinese "gongfucha" method is the ultimate take on this, where one uses tiny pots (typically 8-10cl), made of thick, unglazed clay ("Yixing") that retains heat like a furnace. You pour boiling water over the outside to heat it up, add the leaves, pour more boiling water onto the leaves, then pour more boiling water over the teapot for the 5-10s brewing time. In these wee pots, you use a lot of leaf (maybe 5-10g, filling 1/3rd of the pot), so it's a bit like an espresso. It's a great way to get maximum flavour and nuance from your tea.

Even brewing "English-style", in a bigger, more conventional teapot, I'd be wary about going too large. You can get pretty little 1- or 2-cup pots for breakfasts that do a good job.

Just like Scotto says, don't pour boiling water on your longjing or you'll turn it into something akin to boiled spinach.


Toodlepip,

Hobbes

 

[Pete]

Hobbes,

WOW, where to start? It's no secret that most here in the States who know little about tea (like myself) seem think the UK and China are the tea capitals of the world. However, I base my statement on my own, limited assessment, as the teas I had in the UK were by far the best I have tried.

I'm pleased to hear the overwhelming response that tea is indeed to be flavorful, and that there are some teas that can provide a lift comparable to coffee. I was also pleased to see that loose tea, while costly, is seemingly in line with the price of a good coffee (per cup)... but with a more favorable shelf life when stored properly. Like with shaving brushes, I suspect there's a price point with teas where you can spend more, but you may not be getting much more than a few personal nuances for your money.

Admittedly, I'm finding myself overwhelmed by my choices in teas. I had no idea there were so many varieties. The more I shopped (online), the more overwhelmed I felt. I figured it was best to sift through this mess was to purchase many different teas in very small quantities. Of course, that's not to say I'm not open for recommendations. I'm just surprised, yet glad, that we have some members here who are knowledgeable in this area.

I'm hoping for my teas/pot to arrive this week, so that I can begin sampling.... and perhaps adding a bit more to this thread than just questions!

Thanks!
-Pete

 

[Hobbesoxon]

I'm hoping for my teas/pot to arrive this week, so that I can begin sampling.... and perhaps adding a bit more to this thread than just questions!

Be careful, when TAD kicks in you'll be getting deliveries not unlike this one...


(Click to enlarge)


and end up with your shelves filled with these, each for a different type of tea...


(Click to enlarge)




Toodlepip,

Hobbes

 

[Pete]

You can brew a smaller amount of tea in a larger tea pot, as long as the water to leaf ratio is ok. Also remember that the definition of "cups" in coffee and tea-speak can vary - often it is more like 4 oz, so be careful.

Looking at the sampler you got:
# Ceylon Kenilworth (No. 317)
# Earl Grey De La Creme (No. 821)
# China Fine Lung Ching (No. 523)
# Fine Irish Breakfast (No. 803)
# Masala Chai (No. 920)

The Ceylon and Irish Breakfast (and the chai) should be very robust brews at >= 1 tsp. of leaf per 6 oz of water brought to a full boil and steeped for 5 minutes. The longjing needs a different treatment, and is not a good breakfast tea, being quite light. The Earl Grey you can treat like the Irish Breakfast, but I found that particular tea quite offputting.

Good luck, and ask more questions.

You are spot-on as to why I found selecting a capacity so difficult. Last night, I literally found myself filling my cups to the level of coffee/tea I desire, then pouring the water into a large measuring cup. Sounds silly, but how often do you measure something like that? After I saw how much tea a "2-cup teapot" would yield, I realized I had some thinking to do. Much to my surprise, 2 cups does not equal 16 ounces when it comes to tea.

Indeed, you are referring to the exact sampler I have selected. I found myself reading the descriptions, in hopes of finding the sampler which had the stronger, more robust selections. I realized the one sample (No. 523) was a lighter tea, but felt that trying one wouldn't hurt. I suspect my next purchase will include the "Fine Tea Sample Collection". I am also giving serious consideration to keeping a record of my teas sampled, and noting my opinions on each, as you have done in your spreadsheet.

-Pete

 

[Pete]

Scotto certaintly knows his leaves.

One thing I would add is that quite a few would advise using the smallest pot that you can get away with, in order to keep the water as hot as possible. It's a bit like shaving, in fact, where the lather-bowl and whatnot are kept warm throughout.

The Chinese "gongfucha" method is the ultimate take on this, where one uses tiny pots (typically 8-10cl), made of thick, unglazed clay ("Yixing") that retains heat like a furnace. You pour boiling water over the outside to heat it up, add the leaves, pour more boiling water onto the leaves, then pour more boiling water over the teapot for the 5-10s brewing time. In these wee pots, you use a lot of leaf (maybe 5-10g, filling 1/3rd of the pot), so it's a bit like an espresso. It's a great way to get maximum flavour and nuance from your tea.

Even brewing "English-style", in a bigger, more conventional teapot, I'd be wary about going too large. You can get pretty little 1- or 2-cup pots for breakfasts that do a good job.

Just like Scotto says, don't pour boiling water on your longjing or you'll turn it into something akin to boiled spinach.


Toodlepip,

Hobbes

You bring up an interesting point, regarding pot preparation. I've always heard that it's best to "prime" your pot by filling it with boiling water and allowing it to stand for a few minutes, then pour out the water and begin making your tea. This seems it would be effective for keeping the tea hot longer, but is it necessary? Secondly, are there certain varieties (such as those steeped in lower temperatures) for which this method should be avoided?

-Pete

 

[Roman414]

I like my tea stronger than most people, I guess. I brew mine longer. when the packet recommends three to four minutes, I brew for six minutes or so. I just don't like "weak" tea. The Chatsford pots seem to consider a cup to be six ounces. I use the two-cup size...it gives me a full mug plus a "warm up" when I am about halfway through. As I type this, I am sipping on a nice Earl Gray from specialetas.com.

 

[Pete]

I like my tea stronger than most people, I guess. I brew mine longer. when the packet recommends three to four minutes, I brew for six minutes or so. I just don't like "weak" tea. The Chatsford pots seem to consider a cup to be six ounces. I use the two-cup size...it gives me a full mug plus a "warm up" when I am about halfway through. As I type this, I am sipping on a nice Earl Gray from specialetas.com.

Thanks for your input, Roman. You bring up yet another interesting issue: the "warm up". Can it be done without compromising the flavor of the tea? If so, what method of reheating do you recommend? I have tried to "reheat" coffee (microwave), but in my experience, the taste was always compromised. I just assumed tea was even more delicate.

-Pete

 

[_JP_]

Pete - Haven't you ever had a waitress ask if you "want your coffee warmed up" when she came by to top off the cup? That's what Roman414 meant by a "warm up."

 

[Pete]

Pete - Haven't you ever had a waitress ask if you "want your coffee warmed up" when she came by to top off the cup? That's what Roman414 meant by a "warm up."

D'OH!

 

[tim]

I'm also enthused by the tea threads. If you don't already, you might as well start keeping a list with tasting notes. I don't know how others do it, but I tend to categorize my list by type (oolong, green, white, etc.) and then region (China, Ceylon, etc.). I then rank within those types.

Unfortunately, I cannot support SpecialTeas. Here's an email I got from them on 4/17/2006:

Tim,

The e-mail is from SpecialTeas. I apologize that you received the e-mail multiple times. There was a problem with our e-mail system, and several customers received that message multiple times. Unfortunately, your address was one that was affected. We have taken all necessary steps to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

We are careful to send e-mail to only those customers who have requested to receive it, so I can't explain why you received this message if you did not request e-mail from us. I will definitely remove you from our e-mail list if you prefer. Please just let me know, or follow the unsubscribe link in the e-mail.

Again, I apologize for any inconvenience. We truly appreciate your business, and we will do our best to continue to serve you well. Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.

Thanks for your understanding,
Rick English
E-Commerce Marketing Director
[email protected]

Of course, my original comment to them (sent through a web channel) expressed dismay at receiving any spam (I'm very careful about solicitation denials/approvals). Lest I forget, after the fiasco, I got another series of multiple spam messages !

Anyhow, I'm currently very happy with Lori's service at The Tea Table, very personal and I like using PayPal. The sites Hobbesoxon's references leave me astonished (in a good way).

I started out a bit on the pure, unadulterated bent, but I now enjoy some flavored tisanes, usually in the afternoon after I stop consuming caffeine.

Keep trying different varieties and exploring your tastes and brewing skills, it's a fun dabble. Although, it is, in the end, just tea .

 

[Roman414]

Yes, that iw what a meant by a "warm-up". Sorry if I was not clear. I grew up in a tea drinking family. When my dad was off in the Army things were sometimes a little tight. If the allotment check was a couple days late in arriving, my mom would re-cycle the tea bags. Lipton, Tetley, or a discount brand called Jewel. sometimes I had three bags in my cup, all on their third infusion. It had to brew a long time to get any color, so it was never really hot by the time I drank it. (all you tea drinkers must have tears in your eyes by now!) Maybe that is why now, so many years later, I can't stand weak, insipid tea. I want my tea to have a little hair on its chest. A hot, hearty, robust cup of a quality tea is SO satisfying. One of life's little luxuries I would really miss.

 

[Hobbesoxon]

You bring up an interesting point, regarding pot preparation. I've always heard that it's best to "prime" your pot by filling it with boiling water and allowing it to stand for a few minutes, then pour out the water and begin making your tea. This seems it would be effective for keeping the tea hot longer, but is it necessary?

For "black" teas (red tea), like all of the "English" types (Assam, Nilgiri, Darjeeling, Kenyan, English Breakfast, Earl Grey, Lapsang Souchong, etc.), you get maximum flavour out of those dark ol' leaves by having piping hot infusions. All that boiling water that I mentioned with those small little Chinese pots is designed to keep infusion hot, hot, hot. These leaves have been heavily oxidised (they're black) and they need the heat to extract the malty, rich depth that they can provide. Priming the pot beforehand, if you're brewing "English style" (i.e., in a non-tiny pot, for several minutes), is important if you've bought a good tea. If you're just drinking teabags from Lipton/Twinings/PG Tips, then it won't matter too much.

Remember that our predecessors used to use tea-cosies over their pots? There was a reason!

Similarly essential is good water. If you're boiling hard water (such that you're getting a scale-filled kettle), it's not going to make awesome tea. A simple Brita filter does marvels in lifting the taste of good leaves. If you're buying really good tea, then consider a cheap bottled water - don't buy Volvic and their ilk, as they're too mineral-filled (great to drink alone, not great for getting good tea). The best UK-based tea waters, for example, I've found to be Tesco and Sainsbury's own bottled waters, which are very cheap ("Scottish Mountain" and "Caledonian", respectively).

Don't go overboard with the boiling, too. Tea experts discern three types of boiling, depending on the size of the air-bubbles being released in the water. If you let a normal kettle reach full boil, with the massive bubbles being released, this is usually too much for tea - the Chinese call it "Old Man Water" - as it has depleted the amount of oxygen dissolved in the water. Optimal is a steady stream of small bubbles just before this stage - Chinese call it "Fish-eye water" because of the similarity of the bubbles to fish-eyes.

Secondly, are there certain varieties (such as those steeped in lower temperatures) for which this method should be avoided?

Ab-so-lutely. The hot temperatures are mainly just for fully-oxidised teas. If you've got yourself a delicate, green tea (like that longjing in your sample selection, mentioned above), you'll stew it to death by putting hot water on it, and it will taste bland and grassy. Optimal longjing should taste nutty, a bit roasted, a bit "hazelnut", with some vegetal notes. Optimal water temperature for these greens is when bubbles are just being released - much earlier than "fish-eye water".

Thanks for your input, Roman. You bring up yet another interesting issue: the "warm up". Can it be done without compromising the flavor of the tea? If so, what method of reheating do you recommend? I have tried to "reheat" coffee (microwave), but in my experience, the taste was always compromised. I just assumed tea was even more delicate.

Good tea is delicate, but if you're brewing it "English style" in a fairly sizeable pot, for several minutes, then you can just mix subsequent infusions without noticing too much of a difference. I'd avoid it if you're using the "gongfucha" method, with tiny pots, as each infusion can taste fairly different to the next, with a nice evolution of various nuance and flavour.


Toodlepip,

Hobbes

 

[Hobbesoxon]

P.s. the usual rule for green tea is that it should be cool enough so that you should be able to comfortably dip your little finger into the water.

There are always some green teas that break the rule, though. For example, Scotto (if you're reading!), I've just sent you some Xinyang Maojian from my wife's hometown, which has to be brewed like a black tea (hot!).