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A Few Rooney Finest

Wonder how many Finest they have left? I imagine it isn't the final count, but it seems this to be the 3rd time they've listed a bunch of Finest up. Funny that they'd have a bunch of Finest in that Polo-esque shape as well. Great for whoever is looking for some Finest though! That Emillion in Finest they posted awhile back was mighty tempting... :biggrin1:
 
beautiful brushes. kind of a shame they decided to make a bunch of ridiculously huge appx. 28mm knot brushes. they could've made twice the amount of 22-24mm brushes instead. i guess there are those who like huge brushes but i'm not one of them.
 
Too bad they used those butt ugly handles.They should drop the price $200 just for using them.
 
beautiful brushes. kind of a shame they decided to make a bunch of ridiculously huge appx. 28mm knot brushes. they could've made twice the amount of 22-24mm brushes instead. i guess there are those who like huge brushes but i'm not one of them.

If you read closely and look at the pictures some of them are 24mm knots, others are 29-29 but they are all the same price for whatever reason.

Wonder how many Finest they have left? I imagine it isn't the final count, but it seems this to be the 3rd time they've listed a bunch of Finest up. Funny that they'd have a bunch of Finest in that Polo-esque shape as well. Great for whoever is looking for some Finest though! That Emillion in Finest they posted awhile back was mighty tempting... :biggrin1:

Astute observation there.... I noticed the same thing a while back when they made Finest its own category. Then when it did not get taken down after the last sale I had a feeling more would be on the way. Its to bad (or very good for my wallet) I missed the Emilion Finest as I'v always liked that handle.
 
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beautiful brushes. kind of a shame they decided to make a bunch of ridiculously huge appx. 28mm knot brushes. they could've made twice the amount of 22-24mm brushes instead. i guess there are those who like huge brushes but i'm not one of them.

$300+ is way, way out of my league, but FWIR Rooney's Finest is known for being really, really soft, and I've heard several guys express a preference for their soft brushes to be huge. I guess there's a reason people are so fond of the BK12.

If you read closely and look at the pictures some of them are 24mm knots, others are 29-29 but they are all the same price for whatever reason.

They're probably priced that way because they can be. At $325, they've got to be well above the cost of materials, so the cost of the extra hair is probably inconsequential. Also, even if the cost of the extra material is significant, it's probably outweighed by the lower demand for such massive brushes. I'd say it's probably better for us that they don't adjust based on knot size...if they think that $325 is a fair price for their 24mm brushes, they'd probably just increase the price on the big brushes.

Oddly, I really like this one-price scheme...since knot size is more of a personal preference than a good unto itself, and bigger isn't always better, this way we can make a buying decision based on what we like, not what we can afford (assuming we can afford one at all :laugh:).
 
Oddly, I really like this one-price scheme...since knot size is more of a personal preference than a good unto itself, and bigger isn't always better, this way we can make a buying decision based on what we like, not what we can afford (assuming we can afford one at all :laugh:).

Fantastic point. I wondered about that for a long time. However there was a post not to long ago where someone did the math about knot size to hair needed, and bigger knots took substantially more than smaller knots. Also as you went up the size scale each increase in 1mm of knot made more and more stuffing needed to go around the outside circle that 1 mm took up. It had some fantastic charts to illustrate. I wish I could find it in search but I dont remember the title :(
 
It's also interesting to see all of the individual brushes lined up side by side. For all that Rooney is lauded for keeping a fan shape to their brushes, there are a few that are semi-bulbs at least, and others are a bit asymmetrical. Such is the variability of hand made products.
 
Oddly, I really like this one-price scheme...since knot size is more of a personal preference than a good unto itself, and bigger isn't always better, this way we can make a buying decision based on what we like, not what we can afford (assuming we can afford one at all :laugh:).
This approach might seem to fly in the face of many posts I have read in the past on B&B that "the high priced brushes aren't more expensive because they're better, but that the hair is rarer. Hair that is rarer is more expensive."

To me, if a knot size increases by 3-4mm, which takes a much higher quantity of hair to fill, can be sold at the same price of a brush that has half the hair, then the smaller brush is overpriced. If it's the hair that is rare and expensive, how can twice as much of it be sold for the same price?:huh:
 
Maybe they just dont want to go over the pricepoint set by the smaller brushes so they sell the bigger ones at a loss.Then again it could just go to show how much markup they can take a sucker for a ride.

On a second note there's some shoddy craftsmanship on a couple of those 325 dollar brushes.
 
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Maybe they just dont want to go over the pricepoint set by the smaller brushes so they sell the bigger ones at a loss.Then again it could just go to show how much markup they can take a sucker for a ride.

On a second note there's some shoddy craftsmanship on a couple of those 325 dollar brushes.

I'd definitely be choosing a symmetrical one myself and would be pretty peeved if I ended up with a misshapen one, IMHO the second one in is particularly poor. However this looks like it could be the last dregs of the Finest finally staggering across the finish line. So if I didn't already have one I might be tempted to go all in, but I'm not mad keen on the handle.

Regards Grant
 
This approach might seem to fly in the face of many posts I have read in the past on B&B that "the high priced brushes aren't more expensive because they're better, but that the hair is rarer. Hair that is rarer is more expensive."

To me, if a knot size increases by 3-4mm, which takes a much higher quantity of hair to fill, can be sold at the same price of a brush that has half the hair, then the smaller brush is overpriced. If it's the hair that is rare and expensive, how can twice as much of it be sold for the same price?:huh:

Fantastic point. I wondered about that for a long time. However there was a post not to long ago where someone did the math about knot size to hair needed, and bigger knots took substantially more than smaller knots. Also as you went up the size scale each increase in 1mm of knot made more and more stuffing needed to go around the outside circle that 1 mm took up. It had some fantastic charts to illustrate. I wish I could find it in search but I dont remember the title :(

Very interesting points! I still the one-price-fits-all system is fair, though...here's my reasoning:

Assuming the knot's a true circle (close enough for government work :laugh:), then the area of the knot base would be given by pi*r^2. Assuming the hair is of uniform density through the knot (again, probably not true, but close enough), then that extra area should translate into extra hair needed:

((28mm/2)^2-(24mm/2)^2)*pi/((28mm/2)^2*pi)

Simplifying...

(14^2-12^2)/(14^2) =~ 0.265

Meaning the 24mm knots require about 3/4 of the hair that the 28mm knots do -- that is, admittedly, pretty significant. But you've got to consider how much of the price really comes from the hair. The labor on these thing is probably a pretty fair chunk of the price:

Rooney's very best shaving brush - From the lathe-turned and hand polished imitation ivory handle to the hand-sorted and knotted "Finest" Badger Fillings.

All that hand stuff must take a lot of time from a skilled worker, which in a first-world country would demand about $15-$20 an hour. Turning a 24mm handle and a 28mm handle probably isn't that different, so the labor cost for all the brushes should be about the same. Those costs do add up, but Simpson's is able to put out a hand-tied and hand-turned brush for much less, so what gives?

Well, once you've paid for parts & labor, then you have to determine your profit, taking into account the supply & demand of your product. The supply of all of these is nil -- they've pretty much got a corner on the market, and the demand for these legendary brushes is astronomical. However, the demand for 28mm+ brushes is demonstrably lower than the demand for ~24mm brushes -- right now, about half to two-thirds of the brushes that were in stock at Classicshaving last night are gone, and of the six left, five are 28mm or larger. And that's with all the brushes being the same price -- if the 28-29mm brushes were worth more, then they should've sold first.

So, if we want 24mm brushes more than we want 28mm brushes, it makes sense to charge more for the smaller ones...however, the bigger ones took a third again as much hair to make. So, if the cheaper product to make is in higher demand (and can thus be priced higher), then pricing them the same makes economic sense, assuming you're still making a profit on both when all's done. And, god knows, at $325 they'd better have a significant profit margin on these...it's not like they need to price competitively, since they've got no real competition (other than the occasional second-hand Finest on the B/S/T).

ED: One thing that was bothering me, though, was why they'd even bother with 28mm+ brushes if the 24mm ones could be sold for more. Then it dawned on me...they're probably wanting us SBAD sufferers to have variety, so we can buy another brush if we already have one. So they lose a little profit in the short term, but they keep their demand consistent in the long term. I wish I could run a business like these guys. :lol:
 
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Very nice brushes, I'm sure they'll sell fast. The "off pricing" is amusing - a straight 330 or 350 would seem to make more sense. I think that Rooney has made some much nicer looking handles, it's almost a case where one might want to re-handle the knot rather than the other way around.

I am glad that at least a few people will get a chance to experience what really is the finest bristle IMO.
 
-- if the 28-29mm brushes were worth more, then they should've sold first.

ED: One thing that was bothering me, though, was why they'd even bother with 28mm+ brushes if the 24mm ones could be sold for more.
Since the 24mm knot is obviously in higher demand, they should have tacked on a slightly higher (token) price on the 29mm brushes (say $339) to inject an artificial perceived higher value on the bigger but harder to sell brush.

People's minds work in funny ways--the bigger brush you wouldn't buy at $324 suddenly looks like a pretty good deal if you can get it for only $15 more. Lot's more hair--heck, I'm already putting out over three hundred bucks for this thing--what's another $15? Why not? Alright--supersize me!

Would you like fries with that?:wink2:
 
No mysteries here. Rooney probably found the last of the finest and since they won't be making anymore just sold the entire lot to Classic and probably charged them a flat rate for all of them and classic is selling them for the same price for that reason. Just a manufacturer's closeout. It happens all the time. Since they are all one of a kind items who knows they might have been NOS or display samples from somewhere else.
 
Fantastic point. I wondered about that for a long time. However there was a post not to long ago where someone did the math about knot size to hair needed, and bigger knots took substantially more than smaller knots. Also as you went up the size scale each increase in 1mm of knot made more and more stuffing needed to go around the outside circle that 1 mm took up. It had some fantastic charts to illustrate. I wish I could find it in search but I dont remember the title :(

Math should be pretty simple. It's basically area.

24mm has an area of 452mm square
28mm has an area of 616mm square

So the bigger knot requires about 136% of the hair of the smaller one.

Am I missing something?
 
Math should be pretty simple. It's basically area.

24mm has an area of 452mm square
28mm has an area of 616mm square

So the bigger knot requires about 136% of the hair of the smaller one.

Am I missing something?
The two bigger knots I saw earlier today (the only two I looked at) were not 28 but 29 and 29.5. That 29.5 must be close to half again as big as a 24. That's a lot of hair--particularly if that hair is so fantastic that many posters that own it can only say "it's hard to describe, but it's the best." :laugh:
 
The two bigger knots I saw earlier today (the only two I looked at) were not 28 but 29 and 29.5. That 29.5 must be close to half again as big as a 24. That's a lot of hair--particularly if that hair is so fantastic that many posters that own it can only say "it's hard to describe, but it's the best." :laugh:

It's like TGN Finest, but much much denser, more backbone and prickle that isn't unlike the shea moisture brush.
 
Pretty much on the nose, actually...(29.5^2) / (24^2) = 1.51085069, according to Google Calculator. :laugh:

Area of a round area (or circle) is:

Pi (or 3.14) x Radius squared... Pi x R^2

I did this a bit ago while bored at work. You can see how much the area or amount of badger hair increases with knot size. Base size is 22mm.

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