That surprises me about Cary, I do like his style but my point was it not correct to do that. Pleated trousers / cuffs. Belt & shoes same colour. Never loafers with a suit. Your tie should be the same width as the lapel on your jacket.
A "button-down shirt" .
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I am pretty sure that button down collar shirts with suits among the eastern elite is nothing at all new, much less trendy. J Press has been around since 1902. I bet their standard style has been OCBD shirts with suits since the 1930s, but surely since the 1950s.
I suppose one can argue that the eastern elite dresses incorrectly, but I am not sure what that would means! <g>
I would say that President Obama and Bill O'Reilly intentionally dress differently than eastern CEOs and the like, so as not to be more populist.
I suppose one can argue that the eastern elite dresses incorrectly, but I am not sure what that would means! <g>
I would say that President Obama and Bill O'Reilly intentionally dress differently than eastern CEOs and the like, so as not to be more populist.
I live in Charlotte & I don't know if consider us eastern elite. I know some of the CEOS here and they don't wear button down collars with suits.
I enjoy watching movies from the early 60's, especially for the style. It's not at all uncommon to see men in suits with button-down collars. So I wouldn't say that it's not ever done. It may not be the current boardroom trend, but I think it's totally acceptable especially with the Mad Men influence in today's fashion.
Another icon sporting the button-down with a suit
Another icon sporting the button-down with a suit
My Bill Buckley fascination predetermines that I can only wear button-downs. With blazers, suits, and everything in-between.
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Button down is less formal. During most of the 20th Century, the well dressed gentleman would have known that the "button down" was a "sporty" sort of dress shirt for wearing in the country or to the race track or wherever, but not for "business downtown".
Generally a good approach. I've heard that "rule" mentioned a few times, and break it myself from time to time. More fundamentally, I think that one ought to remember that the button-down shirt is less formal and more "sporty" ... and some suits may fall into that category too. A brown or olive suit of a rough, tweedy material, with a noticeable check or plaid, would be much more casual and sporty than a grey or navy suit (with or without pinstripes.)
Yeah, those are a pain.
Yes, the "no necktie" think is a much more recent development.
I think we are seeing more of a "regional variation" than anything else. Kind of like wearing cowboy boots with a suit to the office ... strange indeed, unless you are somewhere in or between Texas and Alberta.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
If it was good enough for The Chairman of the Board it is good enough for me.
As Ian mentioned a button down was adopted by the sporting crowd as as an advantage on the sports field hence it is a sports shirt.
I don't see any confirmed button downs in that Mad Men picture. I see evidence of some tie bars and things like that.
And anyway Sal is the only Mad Men character you would want to go by. 
Just for the heck of it, I Googled in Google images "Fortune 500 CEOs," and then CEOs and various geographic locations all over the US. (I would not wear a button down collar with a suit in Europe, or, I am guessing, Canada or Latin America.)
Lots of beautiful suits, many quite "formal," and probably more expensive than my car. Lots--more than I would have expected--of button down collars. If I were getting my photo taken for the annual report for some company I was CEO of, I wouldn't wear a button down collar with a suit. But apparently lots of CEOs do no matter where their companies are.
I do suspect that there is some correlation between button down collars and having gone to school at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Virginia, Vanderbilt, maybe Tulane, say, Washington & Lee, etc. But I do not have that deep an interest and there are just way too many corporate, government, etc. leaders wearing button down collars with a suit to bother! <g>
BTW, I do not wear short sleeve shirts with a suit. My belt matches my shoes. I generally wear cuffs with pleated trousers. I do not wear Weejuns with a suit, unless I am being intentionally casual. I do wear certain slip on shoes with a suit. I do not think they would be considered loafers. I do not wear cowboy boots with a suit, but if I lived in Texas, I would not hesitate. <g>
Lots of beautiful suits, many quite "formal," and probably more expensive than my car. Lots--more than I would have expected--of button down collars. If I were getting my photo taken for the annual report for some company I was CEO of, I wouldn't wear a button down collar with a suit. But apparently lots of CEOs do no matter where their companies are.
I do suspect that there is some correlation between button down collars and having gone to school at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Virginia, Vanderbilt, maybe Tulane, say, Washington & Lee, etc. But I do not have that deep an interest and there are just way too many corporate, government, etc. leaders wearing button down collars with a suit to bother! <g>
BTW, I do not wear short sleeve shirts with a suit. My belt matches my shoes. I generally wear cuffs with pleated trousers. I do not wear Weejuns with a suit, unless I am being intentionally casual. I do wear certain slip on shoes with a suit. I do not think they would be considered loafers. I do not wear cowboy boots with a suit, but if I lived in Texas, I would not hesitate. <g>
I know a lot of people wear one with a suit but my original point was it has never been correct dress nor will it ever be. If anyone wants to do this that's fine but don't pass it off as being correct just because many people do this.
All these pictures - including the Chairman - reinforce my belief that it simply doesn't look very good to me. But I'm old.
Most of the lawyers/judges I know don't wear button downs, though most of the psychiatrists/psychologists did, and always with a blazer where the lawyers were usually in suits. I'll wear a button down but always with a blazer, (and usually with my nicely polished iron rangers and a bow tie, it is MN after all) with the regular collars, I'm amazed at the number of people, even people who dress formally, who have no idea what a collar stay is.
Almost all my shirts are OCBD made by Mercer & Son's or Brooks Bros. (I don't buy the BB crap anymore.) I have a few shirts that have traditional point collars that I save for the rare occaision I wear a suit. OCBD shirts don't look right to me with suits. I've tried it but it looks a little "off". A point or spread collar depending on the jacket lapels looks more senior to me.
So I was in a meeting with six attorneys today and all but one were wearing button downs with their suits. I was a little surprised.
i hope you threatened some form of legal action.
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