Zinc Alloy (Zamack) vs. Other Metal Razors Thoughts

[Richard_Harris]

I was reading through some threads and invariably came up upon the great metal debate-I'll never buy razors made of zamack because they will break/corrode. They won't last 50/ 60 years like vintage Gillettes/ Schicks. Well I thought about this since it is a common topic.
1. Gillette old type razor handles frequently cracked and open combs of all types break and lose teeth whether vintage,modern zamack or any other type of metal. In fact one good fall of any razor on the right surface at the right angle can potentially do any razor in.
2. The quality of the zinc alloy can vary greatly. I've seen Star de razors made from the 1950's that are in great shape and the top caps and screws are made from zamack.
3. Users have had zamack razors such as the Muhle r41 razor for years without any corrosion problems.
4. Now here is the kicker - we WILL hear about these problems today because we have the internet and the forums. From the early 1900's through the 1970's they didn't exist. We treat our razors with care because it is a treasured hobby to us. Many of us collect a lot of razors. Back then users bought razors believe it or not, just shave. The precious 50-60 year heirloom you're looking at fell on the floor and broke a comb or tto door they went out and bought another one. Handle got ruined - same thing. How do I know; My father and then I was were two of those shavers. Down the cheeks nose neck a few times and done. Razors didn't break often but we didn't handle them with care we do today.

 

[Twelvefret]

I bought a DE razor about 10 years ago that lasted less than 5 years. I discovered it was pot metal when the tto failed.

I’ve got a brass Gillette single ring made in 1916.

Pot metal covered in chrome and costing several times over what a 70 year old Super Speed would cost just goes against common sense.

 

[Clay S]

1. Notice they changed handle designs so they quit cracking. People break the teeth off, they don't fall off.

2. It's the plating that is key. Zinc alloy will corrode quickly once exposed.

3. And paper/parchment/vellum documents exist that are 100s of years old.

4. A user breaking something isn't the same as something corroding.

Now I don't mind paying $15-30 for something I don't expect to last a lifetime.

 

[Richard_Harris]

1. Notice they changed handle designs so they quit cracking. People break the teeth off, they don't fall off.

2. It's the plating that is key. Zinc alloy will corrode quickly once exposed.

3. And paper/parchment/vellum documents exist that are 100s of years old.

4. A user breaking something isn't the same as something corroding.

Now I don't mind paying $15-30 for something I don't expect to last a lifetime.

 

[Richard_Harris]

You completely missed the point. show me the parchment forums discussing shaving. I think i wrote - we will hear about these problems today because we have the internet and forums

 

[Richard_Harris]

Unfortunately I didn't have enough space to complete the whole zamack post. Please read part 2. I mean carefully

 

[Twelvefret]

What conclusions are you trying to make?

 

[Richard_Harris]

What conclusions are you trying to make?

I'm not. I said thoughts. But it's fairly obvious.Razors made of Brass,SS and other non zinc alloy metals can break and may not last the vaunted forever years. Aluminum razor screws are soft and I have read from users that they can strip if if the handle is tightened to tight too often. I think most readers feel things are pretty cut and dried and they are not.. Fatip piccolo razors are brass and they break easily. None of them are going to last 50 years of regular use. Probably the same with aluminum razors The material is too soft. Those of you who rotate your razors you will never experience the normal rate of razor destruction as if you used the same razor daily. Remember pre internet we just shaved, rinsed, put the razor down and didn't give much thought to razor care. Many didn't last for years and years. Now with the internet we have forums to help us with a relatively new hobby to learn all about our razors and their upkeep, except for one responder who insisted that there were paper documents 100 years ago doing this. Anyway those are my thoughts that you can expand upon.

 

[Marlor]

I’ve got vintage TTOs that don’t open and close well. I’ve even broken one irreparably trying to fix the mechanism.

I’ve got aluminium techs that are terribly pitted and unusable too. Every aluminium razor I own has some degree of pitting.

Yet I’ve got some great vintage razors.

Shaving with a well-preserved vintage razor is a great feeling. The ones that survived are the best-made of the lot. The lesser ones are on a trash heap somewhere.

Yet if I want the best shave, I’ll reach for a (zamak) Progress every time.

 

[romsitsa]

There are two major differences between brass and zamak.
1. Zamak will break, brass will bend.
2. Zamak can’t be repaired, only replaced, brass can be bent, cut, welded, soldered, replated almost infinite times.

Adam

 

[les24preludes]

I'm still not sure of the exact point of this thread. It seems to be saying "all razors can degrade over time either through material degradation or user abuse so you might as well consider using zamak as well as other metals, rather than avoiding it". It also seems to be saying "razor degradation has been under-reported before the Internet age so we have little hard data on it", which is a fair point and probably applies to a lot of things.

My view is that zamak is OK for bottom plates where there is no thread and no friction. I would expect a generous lifetime there. However, when it comes to 3 piece razors I would personally use a top cap and handle made from brass, copper, stainless or titanium. Not difficult to achieve - I use a Yintal Bronze top cap with my R41 and Fatip base plates and this looks like brass to me. Or an Old Type top cap works as well. If I were to invest in a new razor it would be a Karve OC made of brass.

I was one of the guys whose Rockwell 6C handle became unusable when the thread disintegrated. That's a pretty new razor. As above, I have no problem using a zamak bottom plate but I'll pass on anything else. An additional point is that I don't like chrome plated metal of any kind when there are other more interesting raw metal choices.

 

[BigJ]

Some zamak razors last decades if they are good quality and have good care. They also cost less to manufacture. So nothing inherently wrong with zamak if you have reasonable expectations IMO.

Modern SS, Ti, Brass etc can be works of art with corresponding price points. They may or may not shave any better than their Zamak counterparts.

Nice to have options IMHO so you can decide what you value.

 

[ajkel64]

Most of my razors will outlive me so it doesn’t worry me what metal they are made of. My razors only get used for a week and then put away basically until next year. I get what you mean about the internet and forums like this. We have instant access to just about anything we want and this goes with answers to questions. Our fathers and grandfathers never had computers and the like to discuss anything. We can now interact with each in minutes from around the world.

 

[Twelvefret]

I'm not. I said thoughts. But it's fairly obvious.Razors made of Brass,SS and other non zinc alloy metals can break and may not last the vaunted forever years. Aluminum razor screws are soft and I have read from users that they can strip if if the handle is tightened to tight too often. I think most readers feel things are pretty cut and dried and they are not.. Fatip piccolo razors are brass and they break easily. None of them are going to last 50 years of regular use. Probably the same with aluminum razors The material is too soft. Those of you who rotate your razors you will never experience the normal rate of razor destruction as if you used the same razor daily. Remember pre internet we just shaved, rinsed, put the razor down and didn't give much thought to razor care. Many didn't last for years and years. Now with the internet we have forums to help us with a relatively new hobby to learn all about our razors and their upkeep, except for one responder who insisted that there were paper documents 100 years ago doing this. Anyway those are my thoughts that you can expand upon.

This a wiki regarding pot metal:
"Depending on the exact metals "thrown into the pot," pot metal can become unstable over time, as it has a tendency to bend, distort, crack, shatter, and pit with age. The low boiling point of zinc and fast cooling of newly cast parts often trap air bubbles within the cast part, weakening it. Many components common in pot metal are susceptible to corrosion from airborne acids and other contaminants, and internal corrosion of the metal often causes decorative plating to flake off.[citation needed] Pot metal is not easily glued, soldered, or welded. "Pot metal - Wikipedia

My experience having tools made of pot metal is that they fail suddenly and repair is impossible. The razor I mentioned in my first post was not repairable. The TTO mechanism did not bend or become clogged with lather and siuch, it broke in two pieces. Contrast this with a 1930's TTO Gillette. The brass does not fail from breaking in two pieces. Brass does not crack, shatter with age.

Perhaps we can discuss reparability. Generally pot metal is not repairable. While old razors fail, they can be repaired. I once had a splitting wedge which broke in two pieces from use. I replaced it with one made from forged steel. Bigg difference in price, but the steel will not fail by breaking.

I will allow, of course, that any tool abused can be damaged.

 

[Richard_Harris]

The point of this thread is exactly what is happening now. To stimulate discussion and read what ideas you have. The OP title tarts with "some thoughts".

 

[Twelvefret]

BTW, for me, Bakelite, is an excellent alternative to any metal material. I appreciate the brass inserts used by PAA on their Bakelite slants.

 

[Nicholas]

I've got two zamak made razors (Merkur) from the 1950s. Both were in good condition. That was pure luck.
If you take great care of your products, you won't have any problems, they will last for decades.
But, big but, if you drop a zamak made razor, it will have to go to the trash can. The material is not durable. Even the modern plastic carts are more durable than the zamak made razors like Muhle, EJ and Merkur. Also, if you accidentally hit it anywhere, the plating will be gone.

Just buy a stainless steel razor, there are models that won't cost you an arm and a leg, and you're set for a lifetime.

 

[Clay S]

You completely missed the point. show me the parchment forums discussing shaving. I think i wrote - we will hear about these problems today because we have the internet and forums

You completely missed the point. You give an example of a "Muhle r41 razor" that has lasted for years. That does not necessarily mean that it is particularly durable. Documents have lasted hundreds of years. Do you consider paper particularly durable?

 

[Richard_Harris]

You completely missed the point. You give an example of a "Muhle r41 razor" that has lasted for years. That does not necessarily mean that it is particularly durable. Documents have lasted hundreds of years. Do you consider paper particularly durable?

Not to get argumentative but again the but there were no paper discussion groups or forums one hundred years ago. That was the only point.

 

[musicman1951]

You buy a cheap razor and it lasts for a long time - good for you. You buy a cheap razor and it doesn't last, so you buy another one - still fine for you, it was a cheap purchase.

Some people like cheap stuff. My wife hates to spend money. Some people make a game of how cheap they can go and still get the job done. Fine with me.

Some people like really nice stuff. Still fine with me. Some people consider buying quality an investment over time.

There is no question that the interwebs make it easier to hear about the quality of goods and services.