- Thread starter
- #301
I agree. They eliminated this "hidden" spring as you know in later adjustable models.
1956 Serial Toggle Nickel Plated
- Thread starter GlennConti
- Start date
I agree. They eliminated this "hidden" spring as you know in later adjustable models.
Hi,
Exactly. There is always a reason behind engineering changes. 98% of which fall into two groups. One reason is some form of efficiency improvement. Easier to produce, or lower cost components. The other reason is because something does not work out so well. This time I bet they found out that the spring gummed up and slowly lost effectiveness. So, they redesigned that part.
There are always a list of 'gotchas' when coming out with a wholly new way of doing something. It does appear that this razor shows up a few such. This is why this thread is so interesting. Learning something new about something old always is very interesting to me (even though I won't likely ever have another one of these).
Stan
- Thread starter
- #303
Stan, those are some good insights.
I think this change fell into both categories. They eliminated a need to bore an indent for the red paint dot saving cost and mitigated the gunk up problem too.
reading this thread has become like watching new episodes of a favorite tv show....epic
- Thread starter
- #305
Yeah I bet a lot of people didn't even know there was such a thing as a nickel plated serial numbered toggle. Now more people will be on the look out and the chances are greater that another one will surface. I would love that to happen to see if its serial number is in the 3000 to 3999 range.
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Hi,
You know, there is a town near me populated with many antique stores. I have not been in a couple years. I ought to go looking. I have not as I was in last year's restraint, and now this year's, but I would fail out gladly if I happened onto one of these.
Stan
You know, there is a town near me populated with many antique stores. I have not been in a couple years. I ought to go looking. I have not as I was in last year's restraint, and now this year's, but I would fail out gladly if I happened onto one of these.
Stan
My experience is in the computer industry. I think my (limited) stamping experience is transferable but I am certain that Gillette's assembly processes and logistics are quite outside my base. Just from a general knowledge of manufacturing logistics and machining and assembly processes, I am inclined to believe that these are Superspeed or other stock base plates from one stamping run, on the same tooling.
Considering the small lot sizes -- by Gillette standards -- I think it likely that unique components were manufactured in single lots, but there is no reason of which I am aware that the razors would have to have been assembled in a single lot over a short time period. Gillette might well have set up a small dedicated area where the razors were assembled by a few individuals, or even one person, over an extended period of time.
Lacking records of the assembly process, we can be certain only that these razors were not assembled before the date on the base plates.
- Thread starter
- #308
Yeah it is a good bet that they weren't made before 3rd Quarter 1955. I'm placing my money on the "In time for Christmas" theory as a cap on the time extension (that is, how long they would have taken to build the last one). Gillette was selling these beauties for $7.50, a pretty penny back then, and they would have wanted to get all that gift giving business is my guess.
Glenn, you may be right. My sketchy knowledge of Gillette marketing strategies includes recollections of heavy Christmas promotions. Other than that, I couldn't see their setting up a large dedicated area, etc.
Without getting into a lengthy tutorial on product development and manufacturing, especially with a limited run new product there are reasons to select and reserve components from single runs. My point is that Gillette could have set aside a run of stock base plates for that reason, regardless of how rapidly the razors were assembled.
Without getting into a lengthy tutorial on product development and manufacturing, especially with a limited run new product there are reasons to select and reserve components from single runs. My point is that Gillette could have set aside a run of stock base plates for that reason, regardless of how rapidly the razors were assembled.
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- Thread starter
- #310
You are right. They probably didn't need a large area to make 5000 razors. I bet that the drug stores they sold through were on some sort of allocation to get them. Probably many more than 5000 drug stores in 1955. Wikipedia puts the current number of drug stores in US at 67,000.
- Thread starter
- #311
So I just got around to looking at the other razors in this ebay lot. The Fatboy is an E-3 in very good condition. I can definitely sell this one or give it away after I clean it up. It is a nice razor.
Looks like a potential beauty!
That would be nice, but as far as I know, no.
Well Gentlemen, this thread has been nothing short of gentlemanly conduct, collective/individual theories, and good ol' fashioned fun. I am still amazed at the knowledge you gents possess and for that, I want to thank you all. It is fun to sit back and watch as well as listen to the engineering guys discuss different theories back and forth. Like I said, this will certainly be a thread for the B&B history books.
After I took the hill on the disassembly of this thing (with everyone's help of course), I had to leave on a short business trip so the toggle got put on hold for a few days. Well, today is my day to catch up on everything so the workshop is in full swing. I had to take polishing this thing very slow and steady. As you gents know, there is a layer of gold under this thing so getting too liberal with the polishing compound and rubbing too hard could potentially remove this tired old nickel. Overall, I think it went very well and I was able to restore quite a bit of luster on the nickel plated parts. In fact, I think the doors are going to impress everyone watching here.
After getting everything polished up, I shifted my focus to the adjustment mechanism. As we can all see from the drawings and interpretation of the patent info, the adjustment of the blade is made possible by movement of the adjuster plate (#24). This so called adjuster plate or "platform" moves up and down when the adjuster dial is turned clockwise and counter-clockwise. So when the dial is turned clockwise (toward setting 5) the gap increases. The dial is reverse-threaded on to the lower extension of 24. I know you gents all get this so I figured I would toss in a quick and dirty version for anyone just jumping in the thread
ANYWAYS, I know that we were all discussing the firmness of the "click" on this model a few posts back. Some of you that have models like this (whether they are the gold plated or nickel plated versions) all seemed to make the comment that the click is anything less than a "firm" click, and please correct me if this isn't the case with your 1-5 toggle
The click isn't like the external indicator springs of the bottom-dials and later fatboys anyways, right? I took this thought and stored it in my brain so I could come back to it when I was ready to start reassembling the razor.
As we can all recall, the click spring on this toggle was seized inside the adjuster dial pretty bad. It had mineral buildup, crud, and it locked up tight enough to prompt a previous user to grab some pliers
Well, once I got in there and cleaned everything out, I was able to clearly see how everything worked. The design may seem complex when looking at the drawings but in reality, it is quite simple. So once I gained an understanding of how things worked, I decided to do a mock reassembly on the parts that make up the adjustment mechanism. Once I got everything put together, I noticed that the click of the spring was weak and not very audible at all. To fix this, I simply took the click spring back out and laid it down on a flat surface and used my index fingers to press down on the outer edges so as to increase the resilience. I then re-installed the spring and WOW. There was a significant increase in firmness of the clicks, as well as the sound it made when making adjustments. I am quite impressed with how this has turned out so far.
So with this, I wanted to ask you all what you think. Is the soft, quiet clicks of those other 1-5 toggles out there a result of the razor being dirty (specifically inside the adjustment mechanism), or was the razor designed to function so? Could it be as simple as the spring steel losing its resilience from use? Working on all these regular fatboys, I have encountered quite a few worn out springs...I honestly do not know what to think as many have brought up R&D and engineering changes to make things better but wouldn't the inventors do exactly what I did if they intended the spring to be firm and audible? I am excited to hear everyone's opinion here
Post-polish photos coming soon!!!!
After I took the hill on the disassembly of this thing (with everyone's help of course), I had to leave on a short business trip so the toggle got put on hold for a few days. Well, today is my day to catch up on everything so the workshop is in full swing. I had to take polishing this thing very slow and steady. As you gents know, there is a layer of gold under this thing so getting too liberal with the polishing compound and rubbing too hard could potentially remove this tired old nickel. Overall, I think it went very well and I was able to restore quite a bit of luster on the nickel plated parts. In fact, I think the doors are going to impress everyone watching here.
After getting everything polished up, I shifted my focus to the adjustment mechanism. As we can all see from the drawings and interpretation of the patent info, the adjustment of the blade is made possible by movement of the adjuster plate (#24). This so called adjuster plate or "platform" moves up and down when the adjuster dial is turned clockwise and counter-clockwise. So when the dial is turned clockwise (toward setting 5) the gap increases. The dial is reverse-threaded on to the lower extension of 24. I know you gents all get this so I figured I would toss in a quick and dirty version for anyone just jumping in the thread
ANYWAYS, I know that we were all discussing the firmness of the "click" on this model a few posts back. Some of you that have models like this (whether they are the gold plated or nickel plated versions) all seemed to make the comment that the click is anything less than a "firm" click, and please correct me if this isn't the case with your 1-5 toggle
The click isn't like the external indicator springs of the bottom-dials and later fatboys anyways, right? I took this thought and stored it in my brain so I could come back to it when I was ready to start reassembling the razor. As we can all recall, the click spring on this toggle was seized inside the adjuster dial pretty bad. It had mineral buildup, crud, and it locked up tight enough to prompt a previous user to grab some pliers
Well, once I got in there and cleaned everything out, I was able to clearly see how everything worked. The design may seem complex when looking at the drawings but in reality, it is quite simple. So once I gained an understanding of how things worked, I decided to do a mock reassembly on the parts that make up the adjustment mechanism. Once I got everything put together, I noticed that the click of the spring was weak and not very audible at all. To fix this, I simply took the click spring back out and laid it down on a flat surface and used my index fingers to press down on the outer edges so as to increase the resilience. I then re-installed the spring and WOW. There was a significant increase in firmness of the clicks, as well as the sound it made when making adjustments. I am quite impressed with how this has turned out so far. So with this, I wanted to ask you all what you think. Is the soft, quiet clicks of those other 1-5 toggles out there a result of the razor being dirty (specifically inside the adjustment mechanism), or was the razor designed to function so? Could it be as simple as the spring steel losing its resilience from use? Working on all these regular fatboys, I have encountered quite a few worn out springs...I honestly do not know what to think as many have brought up R&D and engineering changes to make things better but wouldn't the inventors do exactly what I did if they intended the spring to be firm and audible? I am excited to hear everyone's opinion here
Post-polish photos coming soon!!!!
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Sort of a mild click but definitive
I don't have one or those beauties so everything I say is purely speculation, but I would assume that the soft click is just buildup junking up the mechanism.
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Mine clicks the same as my Fat boy and my Slim
I'm late to the game because of a business project that's coming to a (keep your fingers crossed) successful culmination, so please exuse my tardiness. I've sat here reading the thread as if it were a long lost LaCarre novel.
Glen: I could not be happier that it's you who scored this gem. Your generosity in sharing the process of bringing it back is simply epic.
CAP: Glen's prize could not be in safer hands. Your skill is - as my French collegues say - par excellence.
Thank you, Gentlemen.
All the best!
Rick
Glen: I could not be happier that it's you who scored this gem. Your generosity in sharing the process of bringing it back is simply epic.
CAP: Glen's prize could not be in safer hands. Your skill is - as my French collegues say - par excellence.
Thank you, Gentlemen.
All the best!
Rick
My guess is that there are two factors at work in making the click softer: 1) build-up of soap scum and gunk, and 2) repeated use making the spring weaker.
In short, I doubt they originally planned for the razor to have a soft click or an inexact feel when it got to the intended place.
In short, I doubt they originally planned for the razor to have a soft click or an inexact feel when it got to the intended place.
