Is Technology killing handwriting?

[kirill]

http://xkcd.com/1227/


XKCD did a comic on a similar topic, giving something of a different perspective on this. I would have put the image in my post, but I felt it was a bit big.

Give it a read though, and for the record, I'm not trying to dismiss what's being said, I appreciate writing by hand, and I definitely appreciate proper grammar and spelling.

 

[rajagra]

http://xkcd.com/1227/
XKCD did a comic on a similar topic, giving something of a different perspective on this.

Is it a different perspective? Just because the problem has been around for a long time and has gotten progressively worse, that doesn't mean that current observations are invalid.

 

[kirill]

Well, as I said, I wasn't looking to invalidate what's being said, but it is interesting, to me at least, that the things many people on this forum remember fondly are the very things the generation before complained about.

Whether or not our views are correct, and I repeat, I do agree that grammar and spelling and handwriting are important, but I always appreciate a different perspective, namely that to a degree these changes seem worse to us because of nostalgia, rather than legitimate reasons.

To be honest, I mostly posted it because I found it humorous when I read it.

 

[Bob L.]

Here's a reply to the heart of the initial question...

Kids, along with young adults who rely on texting and other "shorthand" text communications, are finding out that when they leave home and start living on their own they are entering a world that does not always rely on their basic communications medium.

If, they are looking for employment where note taking, order taking, information giving, information receiving, are not always keyboard, or e-pen based their inability to use pen and paper effectively will lower their success rates. If, they choose to work a job where they are managed by someone 15 or 20 years older than they are, they will often hit a brick wall when it comes to advancement.

I've worked in high tech companies where the president banned high tech communications tools in executive meetings. She wanted our complete attention and focus on the tasks at hand. She did not want to know what someone else thought. She wanted our thoughts. Her best line, "If, you need to ask someone else, get them in here, they can have your seat".

Some careers and studies require note taking and work that just can't be done efficiently with an electronic device. Chemistry and math classes and work are good examples.

We stopped teaching cursive writing because...

1. It was a rote set of tasks that many kids found boring. Starting in the late 1970s through the 1990s and into the 2000s we lightened the expectations and stressed the need to not subject kids to things they didn't like doing. Keyboarding was the new thing and many thought it would replace the need for any handwriting. Remember the paperless office? (Yes, I am a curmudgeon.) We are now in the process of raising the bars back up to where they were in the 50s, 60s, and early 70s.
2. We piled other classes into the space the dropping of cursive writing opened up. Classes that concentrated on teaching cooperative skills, basic hygiene, keyboarding, test taking skills, re-teach and enrich classes, anti-bullying classes, etc...) This is why history and geography are no longer standalone classes in many school district elementary and middle level classes. Re-teach classes are a critical need for many kids. I have 6th, 7th, and 8th graders that come to me with reading and math levels three and four levels too low. My school system is successfully moving many of the "fell between the cracks kids" up two to three grade levels in a single year. Writing legible block letters is the first step for many of these kids.

 

[andrew98]

I taught a freshman university lab section for 3 years while I was in grad school (2002 to 2005). Most of the students (adults, mind you) couldn't write legibly, use grammar properly, or use fractions and percentages. Very few of them could perform very simple, basic algebra problems. I always wondered how they graduated high school and ended up sitting before me. The science course I taught was mainly for non-majors (geology), so a lot of my students were finance, accounting, and economics majors... that didn't understand how to use fractions and percentages.

I hang out with a lot of grad students who are 10 years or so younger than me, and some of them can't read cursive writing. I think removing cursive education has eroded people's ability to write legibly and coherently. So many of today's university students don't understand why using proper grammar and complete sentences is important because, "you get what I meant to say," as I was often told.

-Andy

 

[Bob L.]

I taught a freshman university lab section for 3 years while I was in grad school (2002 to 2005). Most of the students (adults, mind you) couldn't write legibly, use grammar properly, or use fractions and percentages. Very few of them could perform very simple, basic algebra problems. I always wondered how they graduated high school and ended up sitting before me. The science course I taught was mainly for non-majors (geology), so a lot of my students were finance, accounting, and economics majors... that didn't understand how to use fractions and percentages.

I hang out with a lot of grad students who are 10 years or so younger than me, and some of them can't read cursive writing. I think removing cursive education has eroded people's ability to write legibly and coherently. So many of today's university students don't understand why using proper grammar and complete sentences is important because, "you get what I meant to say," as I was often told.

-Andy

Well said Andy. You wouldn't believe the number of job candidates I chose not to hire because they were not willing to prove their writing abilities by writing a short report, finding, or business letter. Many of these kids said their college degree was all the proof I needed. I responded by saying you need to show me. It's part of the interview. Many didn't even try.

 

[Dave_D]

Its a different era, as always.
From the transition of straight razors to D.E.s to cartridges not much different in the grand scheme than writing (with feathers back in the day!) to typing then digital tweeting and texting.

 

[merkur59]

My kid is in secondary 4. She uses a computer for her school work most of the time (that is about 6 hours a day, at home!). All assignments, project works are are done and printed off the computer.

Yet she prefers her notes to be handwritten. And they are nicely written, beautifully scripted.
We did not tell her to do so. It was her personal choice. We, as parents, simply encouraged her by telling her how beautiful her handwriting is.

May be this exam piece will show us how far we have fallen (not sure if this is real):

 

[andrew98]

Well said Andy. You wouldn't believe the number of job candidates I chose not to hire because they were not willing to prove their writing abilities by writing a short report, finding, or business letter. Many of these kids said their college degree was all the proof I needed. I responded by saying you need to show me. It's part of the interview. Many didn't even try.

Wow, Bob. That's pretty unbelievable. I can't believe that asking a job candidate to write something is a weed out technique!

-Andy

 

[cursethis]

Well said Andy. You wouldn't believe the number of job candidates I chose not to hire because they were not willing to prove their writing abilities by writing a short report, finding, or business letter. Many of these kids said their college degree was all the proof I needed. I responded by saying you need to show me. It's part of the interview. Many didn't even try.

I amazed that kids these days (and I'm saying that as a 28 year old) have the balls to say that to a potential employer. I mean... I knew they were bad, but I'm still always amazed at the stories I hear.

 

[Andy]

My wife works at a bank as well and it isn't just the death of cursive, it's the death of being able to write at all.

She says so often people come in and need to her to fill out the form or check because they don't know how to read/write.

Sometimes those who do know how to put letters down don't know how to spell at all.

Items such as below are not uncommon at all.

View attachment 354392

At first I laughed, but then I felt sad, as I realised that the picture was legitimate.

 

[DogHair]

I don"t think this problem is restricted to writing and math. I have had the opportunity to frequently interview people for technology positions. It's not the lack of knowledge or experience that is a problem, we all started somewhere. The genuine belief that there is no need to learn anything else makes me crazy.

 

[rajagra]

It would be nice if people would master at least one form of communication. Perhaps speaking would be a good place to start. Isn't it strange that this isn't taught as a subject in its own right in most places?
I'd love to hear people's excuses for not doing well at that. "I don't need to learn to speak clearly, because I won't use it in real life" would be hard to take seriously.

Of course, to speak well you need to learn grammar, (verbal) punctuation, the meaning of words (and the differences between similar sounding ones), etc.
You know, the kind of skills you take in while learning to write. But not (directly) by learning the positions of 26 letters on a keyboard.

As writing skills decline, expect it to become harder to understand what people say.

I would be perfectly happy to see cursive abandoned if the time freed up was used to teach effective communication skills. Or at least hammering home the importance of those skills. Too many people take pride in slurred speech and indecipherable wording.

The fact that technology has connected the whole world makes it more important to speak standard English properly, not less so.

 

[rider4life]

Well said Andy. You wouldn't believe the number of job candidates I chose not to hire because they were not willing to prove their writing abilities by writing a short report, finding, or business letter. Many of these kids said their college degree was all the proof I needed. I responded by saying you need to show me. It's part of the interview. Many didn't even try.

I've done the same thing, specifically when I was hiring my assistant. Part of that role is to complete questionnaires for our clients and potential clients. I have a serious pet peeve when people cannot spell or use grammar properly, ESPECIALLY when they're using a word processor. Coupled with the fact that these questionnaires are usually associated with an RFP (potential business sales) and will be used as a marker for the company, proper syntax is key. All the applicants were required to answer a number of grammatical questions as well as provide a writing sample.

My first assistant, who also happened to be the first person I've ever fired, recently found me on LinkedIn. She was let go because of her spelling and grammar and inability to learn from mistakes with repeated correction from me. I tried my best for nine months and unfortunately she never progressed past the "cut and paste" stage. When she found me on LinkedIn, her first message to me was "hI, How r u?"...Oye vey...

Cheers,

M.

 

[oc_in_fw]

It would take me forever to relearn how to type on a new layout. I'm one of those people who never even looks at a keyboard.

Same here- touch typist. I will stick to QWERTY

 

[Mick]

what R U mean? I R can rite good? C?

 

[oc_in_fw]

My kid is in secondary 4. She uses a computer for her school work most of the time (that is about 6 hours a day, at home!). All assignments, project works are are done and printed off the computer.

Yet she prefers her notes to be handwritten. And they are nicely written, beautifully scripted.
We did not tell her to do so. It was her personal choice. We, as parents, simply encouraged her by telling her how beautiful her handwriting is.

May be this exam piece will show us how far we have fallen (not sure if this is real):
View attachment 354586

Find x

on edit: I just noticed the "answer" is written in cursive.

 

[Chadao]

In answer to the question, yes (Well, except for Mick.). I fear technology may be killing cognition. Brains are working in different ways these days. Worse? Better? I vote worse, but OTTWT.

 

[rajagra]

OTTWT.

One day technology will notice when we are looking at acronyms and pop up their meaning discretely.

Until then, I will despise acronyms.

I think I've worked this one out though. (Duplicated letter?)

 

[Chadao]

Sorry Ray. I was just playing around. I am not a fan of acronyms, and I don't even remember what this stood for. What did you come up with? I keep ending sentences with prepositions. I work with very young, talented people but I had to start using acronyms to make myself understood.

One day technology will notice when we are looking at acronyms and pop up their meaning discretely.

Until then, I will despise acronyms.

I think I've worked this one out though. (Duplicated letter?)