Honing bevel with tape but no tape at finishing stone.

[Stapelfeld]

Hi friends!

I wanted to pick at more experienced people in this forums head as to what they think about this topic. Is it possible to use tape at the bevel setting stones for example a 1k but using no tape at the pre finisher and finishing stone like an 8k and 12k? I’m interested in this topic because I like the idea of not adding honewear with a 1k because it removes a decent amount of metal but an 8k and 12k would remove less material and not really damage the aesthetic of the razor that much but perhaps give a significant performance boost. But that is just a theory, you guys will definitely know more than me when it comes to this subject. Thanks in advance friends!

 

[Legion]

Nope. Most likely the edge won’t contact the stone properly when you take the tape off at the end.

The only way you might get away with it is to finish on a pasted strop that has a little give.

 

[Wid]

I’ve went with tape for heavy work on a 1K then took it off for the 3K. That works well but never tried it on the 8K.

 

[Seelector]

I’ve done this on janky edges where I had to remove a lot of steel because of pitting or to take out a chip. Once I got the edge to good steel I’d switch to no tape and reset the bevel with my 3k. You get some hone wear but not much because your edge is already in good condition. Keep in mind you are cutting a whole new bevel without tape, but again it’s not much steel to take off.

I guess it would work if you took the tape off for the 8k but would take ton of laps to cut that new bevel.

 

[Legion]

Yes. So basically you can do it, but you will still need to reset the bevel to the no tape angle.

 

[Stapelfeld]

I was thinking this same thing because the angle would be raised slightly so lowering might not make contact but using a 5k might remove material at a faster rate to actually change it like someone in the comment below added. Maybe I’m not sure, what’s your opinion if it was a 5k?

 

[Stapelfeld]

I’ve done this on janky edges where I had to remove a lot of steel because of pitting or to take out a chip. Once I got the edge to good steel I’d switch to no tape and reset the bevel with my 3k. You get some home wear but not much because your edge is already in good condition. Keep in mind you are cutting a whole new bevel without tape, but again it’s not much steel to take off.

I guess it would work if you took the tape off for the 8k but would take ton of laps to cut that new bevel.

I see, the bevel still needs to get reset to the no tape angle but like you said the edge is already there so it’s less honewear… that makes sense my friend thank you for taking the time for replying.

 

[Wid]

I see, the bevel still needs to get reset to the no tape angle but like you said the edge is already there so it’s less honewear… that makes sense my friend thank you for taking the time for replying.

You might be surprised how little it will take to reset the bevel.

 

[DrStrange]

Why would you take the tape off for the finisher?

 

[Legion]

Like @Seelector said, I've done it with wonky edges. My process is I use one layer of tape and wail on the edge using a DMT plate until it evens up and the bevel is set.

I then remove the tape, glass the edge to kill the DMT edge, and reset the bevel no tape on a slurried coticule, and then dilucot from there.

The advantage of doing this is speed, plus I don't then having to remove diamond plate scratches on the spine. But if the razor doesn't require a large amount of material removed I'd just do the whole thing tape free and skip the DMT.

 

[Stapelfeld]

Why would you take the tape off for the finisher?

My mind was thinking of how to get the most efficient operating straight razor with the least amount of honewear. So taping at bevel setting and untape at the higher grits that dont leave as much honewear. Thats the idea in my head at least

 

[mr_houston]

I do what you are suggesting. Except I remove the tape and stay on the 1k for just enough to sync up the angle again.

You might also try Kapton tape, which is very thin.

 

[JPO]

The tape wears on an 1k stone. So, by the time you are finished setting the bevel it doesn't take much to finish the 1k bevel set without tape. You only need a few light laps.
I hate spending allot of time on higher grit stones. The same amount of steel needs to come off no matter what you do.
Exessive spine wear comes from too much pressure on the spine.

The spine is just as much a part of the bevel as the "bevel plane". A section in the middle that is ground away will not change that. It only needs to be done once.
I have never reset a bevel even if I cycle back to 1k to hone the razor sometimes.
So, even on a new razor I usually start without tape to hone the full bevel from edge to spine, and I might use tape after that. This also makes the next steps much easier.

There are of course exeptions where you are removing chips and reprofiling the blade. This will need a different approach then the aforementioned basic bevel setting stage that comes after.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Once the bevels are flat, it does not take many laps to re cut a new non taped bevel, electrical tape alters a bevel by about 1 degree. I doubt you would be able to tell any difference in the shave quality, assuming you are making good shaving edges with the stones you have.

You can easily prove it to yourself. Tape the spine with Kapton, thinner and stronger than electrical, a 4,5, 8 or even a 12k can reset a bevel once the bevels are flat. A 4-5k should only take about 40 or so laps to cut new bevels.

You also can fully set a bevel with a 1k and reset the bevels with a 4k and polish with an 8 and 12, without removing much steel from the spine, if you have mastered honing.

If you are having issues with your edges, honing without tape will not improve your edges.

 

[Stapelfeld]

Once the bevels are flat, it does not take many laps to re cut a new non taped bevel, electrical tape alters a bevel by about 1 degree. I doubt you would be able to tell any difference in the shave quality, assuming you are making good shaving edges with the stones you have.

You can easily prove it to yourself. Tape the spine with Kapton, thinner and stronger than electrical, a 4,5, 8 or even a 12k can reset a bevel once the bevels are flat. A 4-5k should only take about 40 or so laps to cut new bevels.

You also can fully set a bevel with a 1k and reset the bevels with a 4k and polish with an 8 and 12, without removing much steel from the spine, if you have mastered honing.

If you are having issues with your edges, honing without tape will not improve your edges.

Thank you! No problem with the edges. They are shaving great but I do have a dovo bergischer with a layer of gold in the spine and so I wanted to hone without tape with the least honewear

 

[alx gilmore]

If you have a golden spine I suggest that with the tape, you first stick the tape to your pants or shirt to pick up a bit of lint which will slightly dull the adhesive qualities so it won't pull off the gold foil when you go to remove it. If you have a lot of work to do you can fully protect the spine with Kapton tape that is lined with cotton fluff picked up from a cotton ball or sweater. Once you add that tape to your spine, the fold-over on each side can then fully adhere to the face of the razor along the hollow ground surface.

Alx

 

[Stapelfeld]

If you have a golden spine I suggest that with the tape, you first stick the tape to your pants or shirt to pick up a bit of lint which will slightly dull the adhesive qualities so it won't pull off the gold foil when you go to remove it. If you have a lot of work to do you can fully protect the spine with Kapton tape that is lined with cotton fluff picked up from a cotton ball or sweater. Once you add that tape to your spine, the fold-over on each side can then fully adhere to the face of the razor along the hollow ground surface.

Alx

I think you’re correct Alx… that razor in particular might be best to just keep the tape. I have other ones without gold that could be used without tape without that much honewear. Thanks for the advice friend

 

[alx gilmore]

Frankly, a month of Sunday's worth of honing without Kapton or any other tape on your finest finishing stone would not change the thickness of the spine if the pressure points on the razor are emphasizing the contact of the edge of the edge. But the Kapton ensures that all contact with the spine is shielded so the gold wash is not at risk. But be aware that stopping abrades metal too so tape your spine when stropping.

Alx

 

[Wid]

Frankly, a month of Sunday's worth of honing without Kapton or any other tape on your finest finishing stone would not change the thickness of the spine if the pressure points on the razor are emphasizing the contact of the edge of the edge. But the Kapton ensures that all contact with the spine is shielded so the gold wash is not at risk. But be aware that stopping abrades metal too so tape your spine when stropping.

Alx

I hone with tape all the time. If I’m just finishing a razor I will strop on linen with the tape on. But with all due respect ,I never tape for regular stropping. There’s enough slack in the strop to where tape should not be needed.

 

[alx gilmore]

Great, I was only trying to refer to stropping with the gold foil spine razor you have.

Alx