Why our mileage varies

[Ron Scott]

Is an aggressive razor better than a mild one?
Will Blade A lead to more razor burn than Blade B?
Which is better, aftershave splash or aftershave balm?
Is it better to shave with a lanolin-based soap or tallow?

I suggest that while it may be fun to post and respond to these kinds of threads the responses are often not as enlightening as they could be. This is because without understanding the skin type and beard type of the original poster none of us can really give a response that hits the mark.

Would we be better served on this forum to develop a common understanding of skin types and beard types so we may talk more intelligently about product choices?

 

[ktang]

Beard mapping is a start, but the thickness of the hair shafts, their natural angles growing out of the skin, and the number of shafts per given area would also affect technique etc.

For skin types: besides oily, dry, and normal, are there other considerations that might affect things? E.g. skin thickness?

 

[Ron Scott]

For skin types: besides oily, dry, and normal, are there other considerations that might affect things? E.g. skin thickness?

I believe many people also have "sensitive skin", which means they may be more likely to develop allergic reactions to chemicals that might be in soaps and aftershaves. But there is no common definition on this forum of "sensitive skin" that I am aware of.

 

[Niles]

I think one of the things everyone learns after doing this for a while is that little about wetshaving is standardised. In my opinion there is a good amount of conversation about beard and skin types so that new people learn quickly. It's just all part of the learning process.

 

[Yuritau]

I've always hated the bevy of "YMMV" responses that flock to each and every question ever asked on these forums. It's akin to just saying "I have no idea". If you're going to bother writing a response to someone that genuinely has questions, have the courtesy to provide the best answer you are capable of providing.

 

[Ron Scott]

I've always hated the bevy of "YMMV" responses that flock to each and every question ever asked on these forums. It's akin to just saying "I have no idea". If you're going to bother writing a response to someone that genuinely has questions, have the courtesy to provide the best answer you are capable of providing.

I agree, and will add that many people have a tremendous amount of experience in shaving--their own face. This does not mean they know much about your beard type and skin type in providing an expert response. In most threads the beard type and skin type of the original poster never even becomes an issue.

 

[TallyShave]

Hyperbole doesn't help much either, although it seems to be the norm on internet forums. Too often things are "OMG that is the greatest thing since sliced bread" or "OMG that is the worst thing ever created." At the end of the day, especially with software, the difference between the good products discussed is marginal at best, but greatly exaggerated on the forums.

Whenever I see someone comparing or discussing two highly-regarded, time-tested products and use phrases declaring the performance of one "miles better", "it's not even close" or "not in the same league" I always chuckle. To me, it says more about the poster than the products.

 

[Chaloney]

I've always hated the bevy of "YMMV" responses that flock to each and every question ever asked on these forums. It's akin to just saying "I have no idea". If you're going to bother writing a response to someone that genuinely has questions, have the courtesy to provide the best answer you are capable of providing.

I have to say I don't think I've ever seen a YMMV-only response to a question. I often see "I do this, but ymmv" which is an acknowledgement that faces and beards are not all the same. In shaving, as in almost anything in life, there is no single right way of doing anything. I much prefer this board as its members are willing to admit that what is dogma in their bathroom may be worthy of flushing down the toilet in yours. They are not saying "I have no idea" they are saying "here is an idea to try, but it might not work for everyone". When I started wet shaving last month I skimmed a few different forums and that is exactly what kept me coming back here. On others there is often a "do it our way or you will be ridiculed and scorned" attitude that is completely absent here. Even when new people come in asking questions about using cartridges and canned foam/gel, the suggestions to use a safety razor of some type are not stated as "you must do this" they are stated as "have you tried this? It might help"

in short, I think the ymmv acknowledgement is a reflection of the open-mindedness that makes b&b the great community it is.

 

[Chadao]

I believe there are so many variables this is all rather subjective. I look at other's description of products and match it up to my experience. I pay more attention to those folks who have similar perceptions. But, like many humans, I also want to yak. B&B slowly helps me develop a nicer shave internalization, but the folks on this site are also smart, funny, and inciteful. I would rather cyber-socialize here than anywhere else I have found.

 

[John Von Wuggz]

I've always hated the bevy of "YMMV" responses that flock to each and every question ever asked on these forums. It's akin to just saying "I have no idea". If you're going to bother writing a response to someone that genuinely has questions, have the courtesy to provide the best answer you are capable of providing.

I think it is used more as a disclaimer than the result of not providing the best answer possible. For instance, when I'm asked about MWF I have nothing bad to say since it works very well with my technique, hardware, skin type, etc. In that case I like to end my examples and praise with YMMV. If someone purchases MWF after reading my glowing review but it doesn't work as well for them the YMMV warning makes me feel better.

 

[Go West Young Man]

The only time someone gets a YMMV reply is when they ask for an absolute answer. If they ask for advice or suggestions, they get it.

 

[luvmysuper]

I think the use of YMMV is the epitome of recognizing that everyone is different and the ultimate expression of not falling into dogma.

I have never seen someone ask a question and be responded to with a simple YMMV. An answer - (as best as the responder can give) is provided, then, as a reminder that what applies to him may not apply to others is provided in the form of YMMV.

There certainly are cases where common new guy mistakes can be narrowed down to likely issues due to the frequency of having seen what worked in previous examples - like "I shaved, and no matter what angle I used or how hard I pushed I couldn't cut hair" = blade plate on upside down. "I shaved and didn't cut very much hair at all, but my face is red and irritated" = very poor blade angle resulting in scraping rather than cutting.

But when it comes to software and in many cases, hardware - you just have to find what works best for you.
Obviously if something works for someone and it works for you, there may be a greater chance that something else that guy likes may work for you too.

I mentioned in another thread that I had read a survey somewhere that something like 80 percent of men responded to the survey with the opinion that their beards were "tougher" and their skin was "more sensitive" than the average man. Unless there is a dermatologist on hand to vet everyone's statement, a discussion of their hair and skin type holds very little value. The opinion on your hair and skin type is as YMMV as your choice of soap, blade or razor.

What we do here in the discussion forums isn't perfect, but it's about as good as it gets without personal face to face interviews.

 

[chilliman64]

would also need to know what angle shavers use and how hard they press. also, is there a way we can measure lather lubricity and moisture content? different brushes, water hardness, beard mapping etc.

too many variables means ymmv, I don't think we can turn this into a science. to make it scientific different shavers/users (from all over the world) would have to be able to repeatedly duplicate conditions which means the same results eventuate, this is not possible, not in MHO at least - ymmv!

 

[Chadao]

I think the use of YMMV is the epitome of recognizing that everyone is different and the ultimate expression of not falling into dogma.

I have never seen someone ask a question and be responded to with a simple YMMV. An answer - (as best as the responder can give) is provided, then, as a reminder that what applies to him may not apply to others is provided in the form of YMMV.

There certainly are cases where common new guy mistakes can be narrowed down to likely issues due to the frequency of having seen what worked in previous examples - like "I shaved, and no matter what angle I used or how hard I pushed I couldn't cut hair" = blade plate on upside down. "I shaved and didn't cut very much hair at all, but my face is red and irritated" = very poor blade angle resulting in scraping rather than cutting.

But when it comes to software and in many cases, hardware - you just have to find what works best for you.
Obviously if something works for someone and it works for you, there may be a greater chance that something else that guy likes may work for you too.

I mentioned in another thread that I had read a survey somewhere that something like 80 percent of men responded to the survey with the opinion that their beards were "tougher" and their skin was "more sensitive" than the average man. Unless there is a dermatologist on hand to vet everyone's statement, a discussion of their hair and skin type holds very little value. The opinion on your hair and skin type is as YMMV as your choice of soap, blade or razor.

What we do here in the discussion forums isn't perfect, but it's about as good as it gets without personal face to face interviews.

+1

 

[u2u]

I've always hated the bevy of "YMMV" responses that flock to each and every question ever asked on these forums. It's akin to just saying "I have no idea". If you're going to bother writing a response to someone that genuinely has questions, have the courtesy to provide the best answer you are capable of providing.

I think most of the posters do their best to offer some constructive advice or information based on their own experiences and perceptions. These posters are motivated by sharing what for many is a hobby, and for some a business interest. I do take the view if you are partaking on these forums to any significant degree, without a business interest, you are a hobbyist, regardless of the poll results in a recent thread. Generally they are trying to give back to a community they have learned from. Some may have other purposes and some posters may get some unwanted backlash from their efforts to participate. We are all impacted by the geographic region in which we live, the market there for shaving related goods, and the difficulties of cross boarder trade. Good answers for me may not apply to members in another country because our conditions are very different. Then one must start considering all the subjective issues and on and on. YMMV and other tactics to deal with written vs verbal face to face communications is, to me, an effort to recognize the challenges, not unduly offend, and keep discourse on topics on which we disagree civil. This is a very good board but it has not been without issue. I for one, lurked for years before joining because of issues seen on the forum. After joining I did not actively post for an extended period for the same reason. I could go on in regard to unpleasantness that I have dealt with by PM since becoming active on this board. I appreciate posters using YMMV and other methods to contribute with civility. Failing that, I have other interests and activities that would take me away from B&B. Apologies are due to the OP as a few of us have strayed well away from his original query. Of course YMMV.

 

[Ron Scott]

The real point with this thread was to suggest that we attend to skin and beard type before responding to questions in which that information is relevant. I think it could really help people...

 

[Chaloney]

The real point with this thread was to suggest that we attend to skin and beard type before responding to questions in which that information is relevant. I think it could really help people...

You're correct, the discussion did go a bit off topic but as luvmysuper said, there is no accurate way to know what another persons skin and beard type actually are. I didn't know there were actual surveys supporting it, but my impression has always been that most men think their beard is tougher and skin is more sensitive than most. I think it's just a reflection of the mass marketing approach of the mainstream shaving products as well as the actual shave quality achieved with them--they suck so joe average gets a bad shave so he goes and buys the next great sensitive skin shave product and his shave is just as bad, therefore he must be even more sensitive than the sensitive guys this stuff works for.

 

[DirtDiver]

I agree with what most of you have said, particularly Phil.

Also, instead of using YMMV I like to use YMWV (w=will) because it is a near certainty that another person WILL have different skin type, sensitivities, beard growth etc.. than you. We are all kind of the same in a very generalized standard sort of way, but we are all also pretty unique.

 

[Katia]

Frankly, I like the varying opinions. It means I can weigh everything I read and make my own decision, but with a little information behind it. It always seems like somewhere along the way, a common theme runs through the threads to pick out and then I usually have an idea of what I want to do.

 

[NCJack]

You're correct, the discussion did go a bit off topic but as luvmysuper said, there is no accurate way to know what another persons skin and beard type actually are. I didn't know there were actual surveys supporting it, but my impression has always been that most men think their beard is tougher and skin is more sensitive than most. I think it's just a reflection of the mass marketing approach of the mainstream shaving products as well as the actual shave quality achieved with them--they suck so joe average gets a bad shave so he goes and buys the next great sensitive skin shave product and his shave is just as bad, therefore he must be even more sensitive than the sensitive guys this stuff works for.

Sounds right. My experience (almost never nick, no adverse reactions to product) has convinced me I have fairly tough skin, and a "soft" beard. Would have said the latter, but not the former before actually using a lot of products. I think the best we can do is play the odds, and try what gets the most positive responses first.