Are badger brush bands important? Do the bands on a brush affect the performance or price? Are they just for looks?
Why are brush bands important
- Thread starter noahpictures
- Start date
On boars? They're just for looks.
On badgers there are differences that often relate to the appearance of the hair (three band, two band, solid grey, etc), but the bands don't tell the whole story.
On badgers there are differences that often relate to the appearance of the hair (three band, two band, solid grey, etc), but the bands don't tell the whole story.
Boars: Cosmetic only, as already stated.
Badgers: They tend to indicate a few things, but this isn't set in stone. The hairs with THREE pronounced bands, the most distal of which is very white (commonly known as silvertip) will generally be:
- Fine (small diameter)
- Soft at the tip
- Most flexible
The brushes made with this type of hair will usually be very soft and luxurious at moderate to even short lofts. I find that you have to have a very short loft for these to be good face lathering brushes (as low as 45mm). Water retention is at a maximum, holding far too much water unless shaken/squeezed out. PS, these get expensive, fast.
Still within THREE band, It's not uncommon to see whiteness at the tips diminish as hair coarseness increases, and tip softness goes down. You're then getting into the range of what some makers will call "Finest" or "Best" (but still with three fairly pronounced bands). These brushes can be very soft still, but the hair coarseness lends itself to better backbone at taller lofts. Water retention is diminished, but it's not a detriment (nearly all brushes are capable of holding too much water). There are some very good brushes to be had for less money here.
Confusing the issue further is that some makers artificially whiten and soften their tips. Not always with unfavorable results, mind you. Some knots from The Golden Nib (advertised as such) as well as, most likely, the cheaper Chinese-made whole brushes of late. They still feel soft on the face and work quite well (and cost less).
Badger hairs with TWO pronounced bands (aka Two-Band, sometimes a variant of Finest or Super) is generally a coarser hair than silvertip, but with tips nearly or just as much so. There's a lot of variance here - I've tried two-bands that were not as soft as some Best grade hair I've used, and some that exceeded the softness of many Silvertips I've tried. Your best bet here is to read the reviews with regard to softness and backbone. Mostly, I've found that these brushes have more backbone with soft tips, so they make good face-lathering brushes. The price varies insanely.
These are just the trends I've noticed myself and among what others have discussed.
Badgers: They tend to indicate a few things, but this isn't set in stone. The hairs with THREE pronounced bands, the most distal of which is very white (commonly known as silvertip) will generally be:
- Fine (small diameter)
- Soft at the tip
- Most flexible
The brushes made with this type of hair will usually be very soft and luxurious at moderate to even short lofts. I find that you have to have a very short loft for these to be good face lathering brushes (as low as 45mm). Water retention is at a maximum, holding far too much water unless shaken/squeezed out. PS, these get expensive, fast.
Still within THREE band, It's not uncommon to see whiteness at the tips diminish as hair coarseness increases, and tip softness goes down. You're then getting into the range of what some makers will call "Finest" or "Best" (but still with three fairly pronounced bands). These brushes can be very soft still, but the hair coarseness lends itself to better backbone at taller lofts. Water retention is diminished, but it's not a detriment (nearly all brushes are capable of holding too much water). There are some very good brushes to be had for less money here.
Confusing the issue further is that some makers artificially whiten and soften their tips. Not always with unfavorable results, mind you. Some knots from The Golden Nib (advertised as such) as well as, most likely, the cheaper Chinese-made whole brushes of late. They still feel soft on the face and work quite well (and cost less).
Badger hairs with TWO pronounced bands (aka Two-Band, sometimes a variant of Finest or Super) is generally a coarser hair than silvertip, but with tips nearly or just as much so. There's a lot of variance here - I've tried two-bands that were not as soft as some Best grade hair I've used, and some that exceeded the softness of many Silvertips I've tried. Your best bet here is to read the reviews with regard to softness and backbone. Mostly, I've found that these brushes have more backbone with soft tips, so they make good face-lathering brushes. The price varies insanely.
These are just the trends I've noticed myself and among what others have discussed.
Does banding reflect where on the badger it came from?
Just kidding.* Finest Badger Hair: The finest badger hair is picked from the back of a rare breed of a long haired species of badger, only found in more remote areas of China. This hair is alot more expensive as it is of a limited supply and consequently more expensive as a raw material. In the making of this fine brush you waste nearly half of the badger hair in the production process which is also an expensive overhead. Finest hair is of similar grade to what Rooney's used to make their special brushes when they first started.
* Super Badger Hair: The hair is Silvertip then re-dressed and re-graded in England. This means the bundle of badger hair is sorted, the short and twisted hairs are removed from the bundle. This leaves the hair feeling softer and whiter. Also by doing this it gives the brush better lathering and water holding capability.
* Silvertip: The hair is picked from the back of the badger.
* Best Badger Hair: The hair is picked from the pars costalis of the badger.
* Pure Badger Hair: The hair is picked from the neck, shoulder, abdomen and buttocks of the badger.
That's from the Rooney section of the shave brush wiki. It would seem like the best quality hairs come from the neck, and the lower grades from the back. I'm guessing banding also depends on location and/or different species of badger.
In my view the whole obsession with bands is very unfortunate. Bands are a physical characteristic that really say nothing about the brush itself. You can describe say a Badger Brush as a Pure or best or Silvertip and these are grades but two band is just a characteristic. The current crop of two banders are far inferior to the older ones so to assume a two band is the best of the best is folly.
It's kind of like saying I'm going to the car lot to buy a coupe. A coupe what? a chevy or ford or maybe a chicken coop. Ford is a brand, coupe is a type of car the same with two band.
It's kind of like saying I'm going to the car lot to buy a coupe. A coupe what? a chevy or ford or maybe a chicken coop. Ford is a brand, coupe is a type of car the same with two band.
Even my two short-lofted Vulfix pure badger brushes have three bands. The overall look doesn't express it at first glance, like a Simpson's best or higher, but when you turn them just right in the light, they're definitely three band. Tops are not nearly as light as best, super, finest, etc.
Does anyone have any idea why this is a characteristic of the hair of the badger?
Does anyone have any idea why this is a characteristic of the hair of the badger?
Can you give me an example? I don't see this type among Simpsons. I am considering buying an expensive brush and looking around.
Think its in reference to Rooney Finest brushes. They're not available any more, alas.
I have uses a lot of two band brushes (including 2 Rooeny Finest) and the closet substitute in my opinion is Shavemac D01 Two Band. The tips are very similar, aside from the fact that the soft white tops are very short as apposed to the ridiculously long on the Rooney. The knot is as soft, density might be a touch higher, backbone is similar, and the build quality of my Shavmac destroys the Rooney. Both of my Finests knots are slightly out of shape, while the Shavemac hardly has a hair out of line with all of the others.
Hey Man, that is your opinion. Aint it always the same......what is not available now, aint as good as what used to be. Opinions on brushes are just like everything else.
I agree. High-quality badger hair has three bands. The term "two-band" only makes sense in reference to a finished brush or brush knot. I personally like the two-band appearance, but most of these brushes have a fairly short loft, which is not my preference. Two-band brushes can be fashioned from different grades of badger hair. For instance, one could find Simpsons (Somerset) two-band brushes both in Best grade and in Super grade.
There often seems to be an implicit assumption that two-band indicates white-tipped badger hair. But white badger brushes, especially in the larger sizes, may show all three bands. In an older Plisson catalog (not sure of the date) a number of High Mountain White and European White brushes in various sizes are pictured, none of them "two-band".
So they can't run away.
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I tried the Simfix Grosvenor LE from Bullgoose, expecting soft tips and great backbone - I was very disappointed. To me it felt like average quality Best hair, and rather prickly Best at that.
On the other hand, my New Forest 2201 has two-band Best hair, and is as soft-tipped as my Savile Row 3122!
I have pretty much given up reading brush reviews. There is so much variation between samples/batches that make reviews pretty pointless. About the only thing that is certain is the handle.
I had three copies of a Rooney 3/1 Super a while back, and all of them differed in density, knot shape, loft and tip softness.
John
On the other hand, my New Forest 2201 has two-band Best hair, and is as soft-tipped as my Savile Row 3122!
I have pretty much given up reading brush reviews. There is so much variation between samples/batches that make reviews pretty pointless. About the only thing that is certain is the handle.
I had three copies of a Rooney 3/1 Super a while back, and all of them differed in density, knot shape, loft and tip softness.
John
The general qualities of Three-band and Two-band is that Two-band has more backbone, but remember that there is a lot of variation even inside of those categories.
For instance, compare Kent Three-band Silvertip to Shavemac D01 Silvertip.
They look similar, but the Shavemac has much more backbone.
Another example is the comparison between the new Rooney Heritage Two-band and Rooney Finest Two-band.
Same company, similar look, but a very different feel. Rooney Finest feels like a freight train compared to the new Heritage hair.
For instance, compare Kent Three-band Silvertip to Shavemac D01 Silvertip.
They look similar, but the Shavemac has much more backbone.
Another example is the comparison between the new Rooney Heritage Two-band and Rooney Finest Two-band.
Same company, similar look, but a very different feel. Rooney Finest feels like a freight train compared to the new Heritage hair.
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