What is the main difference between cheaper and more expensive brushes

[nav]

This post might ruffle a lot of feathers but bear in mind my experience is objective not subjective...

I currently use a Semogue 620 boar brush and also 2 Golden Nib (TGN) Finest badger brushes (I have used other TGN knots, the Finest is the best for me).

I have been curious about more expensive brushes for a long time but not having worked in over 12 months, had to "settle" for the TGN knots.

My friend has a number of high end brushes and so I asked if I could borrow a couple of try out. So, after cleaning/disinfecting them, I tried a Rooney Finest and a Shavemac Finest.

They both lathered up the soap in the exact fashion as the TGN finest but I was so surprised that these $100+ brushes felt and performed about the same as the $20 TGN knot. There was no difference in the way the brish felt on my face or the way it lathered up (I face lather).

So my question is, what is the justification, apart from brushes made from fine material handles (and I wouldn't regard Rooney or Simpson brushes as fine material handles), for the prices of these "brand name" brushes?
What is it about a Plisson that makes someone shell out over $300?? Is it just a novelty or do people actually claim a difference in performance or feel of the brush on the face?

I am very interested to hear the experience of others (especially from people who have used high end and TGN brushes).

 

[Ignatius]

They both lathered up the soap in the exact fashion as the TGN finest

It probably as simple as this: most people wouldn't agree with the above statement.

In fact, I see dramatic differences in the way two badger brushes in the same price range perform; sometimes even two specimens of the same brush model will perform differently. The difference between a generic Chinese knot and a high Rooney is night and day.

Of course its also true that you after a certain point you have to spend much more money for minor differences/'improvements'.

If you want high end performance for low prices, a 'high-end' boar such as the Omega 31064 is the way to go imo. However the difference between inexpensive badger and the more costly stuff is pronounced, to me. Unfortunately.

 

[Hoos]

After a couple of years of DE shaving which included some small investments in expensive brushes, I've come to find that I actually prefer older Rubberset, Tweezerman, no-name, and Gillette brushes. They lather better, hold water better and, with the right touch, really aren't scrubby-feeling on the face.

 

[richmondesi]

The biggest difference is price...

 

[Ignatius]

So my question is, what is the justification, apart from brushes made from fine material handles (and I wouldn't regard Rooney or Simpson brushes as fine material handles)

Just an aside - I disagree with your disagreement.

The modern Acrylic or Plexiglass handles are by far the best material for a shaving brush. They can be dunked in water daily for all eternity with no ill effect, and feel nice and heavy and substantial in the hand. Buffalo horn, on the hand, WILL crack eventually. And its lightweight and horribly overpriced. The horn handles from Vietnam must have a similar markup to a Fusion cartridge. However, some guys really love this material. If I did I wouldn't mind paying a lot for something I'm going to enjoy every day. Thats the main point at the high-high end of prices; you can split hairs between the peformance of a $500 Plisson and a $100 Simpsons - but people pay the extra 'coz they like them.
edit; but again, I do think there's a big difference between cheap badger brushes and...moderately prices ones.

 

[SliceOfLife]

The TGN finest is very nice, but I've gotten one "unusual" example.

I've had a few 20-22mm overstuffed. Always nice white tips. The 16mm I bought though, I actually thought was a best until I looked at the base and saw it was a finest. Dark grey tips, stiffer, less soft hairs. It beats the hell out of lather, but it's not nearly as soft as the other 2 bands I've gotten from TGN, so I suppose a big part of the difference is consistency.

I've also got a 2 band Simpsons Super. It's very similar to the TGN 2 band Finests, but whiter tips and a little softer. It's not noticeable unless you compare them side by side though. The TGN Finest xtra stuffed are really excellent knots, especially considering that you can get a custom made handle with one for less than what anything more than a small best would cost you from a British name brand.

 

[Luc]

Just an aside - I disagree with your disagreement.

The modern Acrylic or Plexiglass handles are by far the best material for a shaving brush. They can be dunked in water daily for all eternity with no ill effect, and feel nice and heavy and substantial in the hand. Buffalo horn, on the hand, WILL crack eventually. And its lightweight and horribly overpriced. The horn handles from Vietnam must have a similar markup to a Fusion cartridge. However, some guys really love this material. If I did I wouldn't mind paying a lot for something I'm going to enjoy every day. Thats the main point at the high-high end of prices; you can split hairs between the peformance of a $500 Plisson and a $100 Simpsons - but people pay the extra 'coz they like them.
edit; but again, I do think there's a big difference between cheap badger brushes and...moderately prices ones.

so you agree?

 

[nav]

Just an aside - I disagree with your disagreement.

The modern Acrylic or Plexiglass handles are by far the best material for a shaving brush. They can be dunked in water daily for all eternity with no ill effect, and feel nice and heavy and substantial in the hand. Buffalo horn, on the hand, WILL crack eventually. And its lightweight and horribly overpriced. The horn handles from Vietnam must have a similar markup to a Fusion cartridge. However, some guys really love this material. If I did I wouldn't mind paying a lot for something I'm going to enjoy every day. Thats the main point at the high-high end of prices; you can split hairs between the peformance of a $500 Plisson and a $100 Simpsons - but people pay the extra 'coz they like them.
edit; but again, I do think there's a big difference between cheap badger brushes and...moderately prices ones.

Actually you are making a similar point as I am.

I agree acrylic handles are all good for use BUT they are cheap...not worth the hundreds for which some brush makers charge.

 

[nav]

Wish you the best with these brushes but that Semogue 1305 in your stable will give at least as good or better performance than the Simpson. Mine is well broken in and I'll put it up against any brush out there at a big, big savings.

I was considering the 1305 but the 50mm loft on the 620 is the one I prefer. The brush is a top performer, best boar I have ever owned.

 

[michiganlover]

The biggest difference is price...

+1

I haven't tried any of the high end badger brushes, but I have no desire to either.

I get a wonderful, close, comfortable shave with tons of rich lather from my two Omega boar brushes (a #49, and a #21139), and my two customs that have TGN finest knots (a 22mm, and 20mm).

Now maybe the high end brushes are super soft to the face, and knock your socks off good, but I can't believe the quality of my shave would be improved exponentially. My current brushes feel plenty soft to me.

My current brushes are good enough for me, and sometimes good enough is all that is necessary.

 

[gsurko]

:

The biggest difference is price...

+1

 

[Antique Hoosier]

Brushes from Simpson, Rooney, Plisson are expensive relative to other tools in the hobby.

 

[blantyre]

The biggest difference is price...

+1

The rest is all aesthetics, feel and intangibles. If you just want to get lather on your face, a $10 boar is functionally as good as anything else you'll find. Of course, I would never give up my Rooney finest or Plisson HWMs but there value has nothing to do with their price.

 

[spanx]

There are probably some noticeable differences(don't own a brand name one)But I doubt any difference is more noticeable than the price.I think it's all about appearance.Kinda like comparing a Dovo and a Livi.

 

[JPDyson]

I don't know if there's so much a direct relationship to price and quality as much as price and demand. Demand does tend to imply quality to a certain extent.

I personally don't think there is any excuse for Plisson HMW brushes. However, I can justify the extra cost of my B&B LE brushes and my Simpson. TGN knots seem to provide a happy medium of very comparable performance at a portion of the cost.

 

[Thebigspendur]

Everything is relative. A guy driving around in a Yugo may think it's the only car he every needs and everyone else is just throwing away money.

 

[WastedResources]

There are several main differences between inexpensive brushes and premium brushes.

1. Appearance of bristles - There is no question that there is a difference in the color of the bristles and their fullness between brushes in different price range.
2. Thickness and flexibility of individual bristles - A thicker bristle is not necessarily a stiffer bristle. It might not even hold as much water. What I look for is a brush that feels nice on my face and holds the proper amount of water for lathering with the least amount of effort.
3. Density of the knot - Some brushes seem to be packed tighter than others. Generally, the tighter the brush at the base, the longer it will last.
4. Quality and material of the handle - You'll pay more for a handle made of horn, ivory, or other interesting materials, but that doesn't mean that acrylic is cheap. A higher quality plastic will usually be heavier and have a deeper luster than the cheap stuff.
5. Price - Whether you're paying for the name, or paying for unique features, you can be sure that not everyone will drop $150+ on a brush. Owning "the good stuff" is a status thing for some.

There's more you could add to this list, but I'm not trying to write a buyer's guide.

If you've tried different brushes in different price ranges, and you can't tell the difference, then don't waste your money. Realize though, that there are people who do see a difference, even if the only difference is the name stamped on the side.

The items in your shaving kit say a lot about the person you are. What does yours say about you?

 

[BCP]

I was planning on making my own handles and just getting knots from TGN anyway, good to hear my own musing verified by another. I can't afford an expensive brush....I can barely afford a $10 brush

 

[fidjit]

Interesting thread as I've always wondered the same thing.

As some of you will be aware I've got about 7 restored brushes now all with various TGN grade knots in it.

Anything above the Finest ( except for the Silvertip ), I love.

It would be pretty hard to tell the difference between all these knots in a blind test.

I came close to purchasing something like a Rooney Alibaba 1 just for curiousity sake to see how different a $150-200 brush was compared with my ≈ $30 TGN brushes.

In the end got a UK Super from TGN ( handmade by one of UK's leading brush makers ) which I must admit I don't like as much as the TGN Chinese Finests and Supers ( still waiting on my Silvertip Grade A).

I just did the quick maths ( you should NEVER do this It's so much better when you consider the cost of each individual restore rather than add them all up. ) and figured my 7 brushes have probably cost me less than 2 "highend" (≈ $150-200 ) brushes.

Maybe one day I'll bite the bullet and order a top end brush, but I'm having too much fun rejuvenating old antique brushes and I'm hard pressed to see how a 5 + times more expensive high end brush could give me 5+ times the performance compared to one of my restores.

I think this sort of debate will always be around...why a Porsche instead of a Kia...why a Fender instead of a Yamaha...why a Ducati instead of a Suzuki....etc...etc.... ( though in these cases there's probably many more factors that can "justify" the purchase ).

What does this say about me ??

"Hi I'm Ian and I like catalin butterscotch and I'm a cheaparse...umm..I'm stingy...ummm I'm frugal

But as with everything here YMMV !!!!

 

[Sparafucile]

Not a lot in terms of performance!

I have a Simpsons Chubby 1 (best badger) that I bought in 1964 or so, and have used continuously (well, to be honest, I often put my Proraso creme on with my fingers) since then, with almost every soap or creme made. It's a very good brush, lathers well, feels good on my face and has lasted a long time.

For the heck of it I bought an Omega 21047 (boar)for about $20 a few weeks ago, and have been using it everyday. It lathers just as well as my Simpsons, and only feels a little "stiffer" on the face, but then again, it's not as broken in. I think the Omega is a great little brush and I'd recommend it to anyone!

Will it last 40-odd years? I don't know, but for $20, it doesn't matter to me!