Wedge vs. Spacer

[amcardon]

Okay guys, today I have been finishing (CA finish) 6 sets of hardwood scales (I'll try to add a pic here in a second) and was excited that I would be able to pin up my first real restoration. Well, not gonna happen tonight.

I sanded down some wedges to use based on the shape/size of the wedges that were in the individual razors these blades came from. Well, most of them came from celluloid scales (a couple from horn) and I am quickly finding out that wood scales do not bend like celluloid scales do.

So here's my question, is it okay to just put in a spacer instead of a wedge? I don't know why that feels so weird to me, I just can't, for the life of me, figure out any other way to go. I tried wedges with hardly any taper, still no dice.

Don't know what to do: HELP!

For those of you who are wondering, I purchased a pack of 12 pieces of 1" x 1/8" x 24" hardwoods from Woodcrafter. It was $16 and I got 2 pieces each of purpleheart, padauk, cherry, maple, walnut and ash (or at least what the guy said he thought was ash, the package wasn't labeled, and no they are not in that order in the picture...) and that's where this pile o' wood came from. I was quite surprised that my absolute favorite (to look at and to work with) is the padauk, gorgeous wood!

 

[BillEllis]

Make sure you pin the butt of the razor first. Then do the pivot. I have not yet run across a species of wood that would not work with a properly proportioned wedge.

Parallel spacers work when you have very flexible material, or when your spacer thickness is close to the thickness of the thickest part of the tang. Normally, you'd want to use a third pin in these instances to keep the blade from swinging all the way through the scales.

 

[BillEllis]

Oh....

After the butt of the razor is tightly pinned, The span between the scales out at the end should be between 1/4 and 1/2 an inch wider than the thickness of the blade tang at the pivot point.

 

[amcardon]

I was really hoping you'd chime in; do you ever sleep?

Thanks for the input, I was trying it while pinning the pivot first so tomorrow I'll do the butt first and then do the pivot. Worst case scenario I use a spacer and 3rd pin.

By the way, peining pins sucks. Hard.

 

[Freedom]

Where I find the problem relates to is not having enough distance between the wedge hole and the piece of the wedge that meets the blade.

To get the wood the flex you need some distance there else when you pin it regardless of how hard you pin the end of the wood will bend away from your wedge.

If you look at the image below it sort of shows you, there isn't enough strength in the pinning to bend the wood with such a small distance between the fulcrum (being the fat bit of the wedge) and the pinning where as in the lower picture the force needed to bend the wood is far less.

But as Bill has said the pins need to be tight because CA treated wood has less flex.

 

[Seraphim]

Always use a wedge. It serves many useful purposes.

 

[BillEllis]

I was really hoping you'd chime in; do you ever sleep?

Thanks for the input, I was trying it while pinning the pivot first so tomorrow I'll do the butt first and then do the pivot. Worst case scenario I use a spacer and 3rd pin.

By the way, peining pins sucks. Hard.

I almost get 5 hours sleep a night. I wish it could be more, but I refuse to take medication for it. That's just life... Peening your razor was hard because you did it backward. If the pivot is peened first, it would be almost impossible to have the scales tight against the wedge afterwords.

Where I find the problem relates to is not having enough distance between the wedge hole and the piece of the wedge that meets the blade.

To get the wood the flex you need some distance there else when you pin it regardless of how hard you pin the end of the wood will bend away from your wedge.

If you look at the image below it sort of shows you, there isn't enough strength in the pinning to bend the wood with such a small distance between the fulcrum (being the fat bit of the wedge) and the pinning where as in the lower picture the force needed to bend the wood is far less.

But as Bill has said the pins need to be tight because CA treated wood has less flex.

Very good observation and analysis and a perfect drawing to illustrate it. I have often gone to the short side of the wedge a bit at times because I don't like the look of a pin real close to the end of the butt. I try to keep pins about 3/8ths from the end. The more pronounced the wedge is, the more your point about it holds true. This is why I shoot for a tad more than 1/8th inch on each side of the blade for spacing with the wedge pinned in place. I also use super glue to help hold things together. That glue doesn't have much shear strength, but it has good tensile strength which helps hold the very end tight. It is often a balancing act and continued success comes with experience, but if the pin is too close to thickest part of the wedge it will eventually separate like you said no matter how many times you have done it. Additionally, I don't know if it's been said, but the scales shouldn't be much over 1/8th inch. I try to keep mine a tad under that. 5/32nds is ok, but not over that.

Always use a wedge. It serves many useful purposes.

I absolutely agree...

 

[okiwen]

Ok, I see in this post that you all are getting to what I asked in another.

"Always use a wedge. It serves many useful purposes"

What are they? All I can find is that they appear to be used for traditional reasons. I have also purchased old razor with thin spacers. ???

 

[BillEllis]

The spacer/wedge is that little extra piece of thickness at the butt of the razor that gives both tension to the sides of the scales and space between them for the blade to rest between.

The term "wedge", as in razor, also means that razor style that has flat-ground blades from spine to cutting edge versus the varying degrees of hollow grind found on most razors after the early 1800's. Many 1/4 hollow grind razors have mistakenly been called "wedges" as well because the hollow grind is not as pronounced as the ones that are thinly ground.