I have some soaps that I like and some that I do not. I am not a cream person, I prefer soaps and shave sticks. I like VDH which is glycerin and Arko which is tallow. Why are they different? What are they? Does one work better than another or is it simply choice? I am referring to Glycerin and tallow, not to VDH and Arko in general. Thanks for the help.
Understanding Glycerin and Tallow soaps
- Thread starter s1mp13m4n
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Tallow is rendered beef fat (I think). I'm not really sure about how/why they work (what can I say, I'm an Anthropology major, not a chemistry), but I know that tallow soaps pretty much rock.
Glycerin soaps are actually called "melt-and-pour soaps". Vendors, such as Mama Bear and QED, purchased the soap in bulk logs. They cut them into pieces, melt them, add some essential and/or fragrance oil(s), and other ingredients, such as glycerin or vitamins. Many of these are not actually soaps, but detergents.
Cold process soaps are made with lye and fatty acids. These involve a LOT more work that melt-and-pour soaps and require, at the very least, some basic knowledge of soap making. These generally have lighter fragrances and can be milled.
"Tallow soaps" are cold process soaps made with tallow (rendered beef or sheep fat).
EDIT: For soaps tallow retards the lather, but gives it more cushion. Tallow soaps usually contain other oils, such as coconut, to make up for the lather retarding.
Cold process soaps are made with lye and fatty acids. These involve a LOT more work that melt-and-pour soaps and require, at the very least, some basic knowledge of soap making. These generally have lighter fragrances and can be milled.
"Tallow soaps" are cold process soaps made with tallow (rendered beef or sheep fat).
EDIT: For soaps tallow retards the lather, but gives it more cushion. Tallow soaps usually contain other oils, such as coconut, to make up for the lather retarding.
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Thanks for the help with this. I have noticed that in a basic way all tallow and glycerin soaps have a certain simiarlarity to them. All tallow soaps seem to be gritty in a way for example or flacky, where as glycerin soaps seem smoother for example. I find the two types of soap to be interesting in how they work and shave/lather differently. 
This is a great hobby.
This is a great hobby.
A vendor's small aside.....I make a high glycerin content tallow soap that is hot processed (made with lye). You could melt it due to it's high glycerin content but it is not pre-purchased "melt & pour" base. It is saponified fats.
Sue
Coincidently, just the other day I milled half a stick of Arko and half a puck of VDH Deluxe into my cup and so far it seems to be the best of both worlds.
Saponified Fats! That would make for a great username!
Or a Custom Title! Sue, I may just have to put in an order for one of those soaps!
Saponification, the process of making soap. From the mountain in Italy where soap is believed to have been born. Mt. Sapo. The fats dripping off sacrificial altars, mixing with the ash from the fires created a crude soap similar to the fats and lye used today.
I've made and used more than my share of hot processed soaps. There is nothing like them. The natural Glycerin in them leaves you feeling great. Most commercial soap is made just to get the glycerin OUT of the process as it's more valuable than the actual soap. In this process it's left in. It's the only type of soap that stops "winter itch" as it acts , and IS a natural moisturizer. Doesn't dry you out like other commercial soaps. Melt and pours are handy and quick,, you can add anything to them easily and costs pennies a puck to make in 15 seconds in a microwave. Add a bit of clay ( Bentonite) and you have a slick shaving soap. When my kids were little,, they made batches of this stuff in an evening. Simple. Not so with hot process.
Sorry,, just thought I'd throw this out there for whatever it's worth.
I've made and used more than my share of hot processed soaps. There is nothing like them. The natural Glycerin in them leaves you feeling great. Most commercial soap is made just to get the glycerin OUT of the process as it's more valuable than the actual soap. In this process it's left in. It's the only type of soap that stops "winter itch" as it acts , and IS a natural moisturizer. Doesn't dry you out like other commercial soaps. Melt and pours are handy and quick,, you can add anything to them easily and costs pennies a puck to make in 15 seconds in a microwave. Add a bit of clay ( Bentonite) and you have a slick shaving soap. When my kids were little,, they made batches of this stuff in an evening. Simple. Not so with hot process.
Sorry,, just thought I'd throw this out there for whatever it's worth.
Saponified tallow, stearic, coconut and castor; contains glycerin and kaolin. Is it good?
Ppffftt...I don't know.
Sue
Ppffftt...I don't know.
Sue
But Sue, your regular shaving soaps are not tallow soaps, right?
I don't see anything in the ingredient list of QED or Mama Bear that would indicate they they are detergents. Are you saying that these particular soaps are detergent based or just some melt and pour soaps?
Not necessarily. Tallow based soaps can be process. They, however, are not confined to that method--although most small, homemade versions are. Most commercial, milled tallow based soaps are produced with a hot process method (some with a very old "boiled" method) then finely ground and run through a mill and then plodding machine before being compressed into pucks.
Sue, I'm getting conflicting opinions on cure time for hot-processed soaps. What's your opinion on the matter?
As to ops question on the differences, I'm pretty inexperienced with glycerin soaps, but from the methods and techniques I've developed with tallow soaps and my limited glycerin soap experience, I would say that Tallow soap lather depends more on WHEN you add water, Glycerin soaps seem more sensitive to how much water you add. The easiest way I've found to get bad lather off a tallow soap is to start with a too wet brush. The easiest way I've found to get bad lather off a Glycerin soap is to add too much water to the soap while lathering or after you've lathered.
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I am no expert, I've also read differing opinions. I kept it at a low boil in a large stainless steel, heavy-clad pot on my gas stovetop for 2.5 hours. This is boil time from the initial boil, not melting the fats, etc. I unmolded after about 4/6 hours with a cure of an additional two days. A dot of 'soap' on a disposable after one hour in - tasted 'soap', no zing whatsoever.
I 'think' part of the conflicting opinions is some classify hot process as done in a crockpot. They vary by brand and although I didn't use a termometer, a low bubbling boil is hotter than I've ever used a crockpot. i.e., a stainless crockpot heats at a higher temp than the older heavyweight type. This is just my opinion though.
If you do this, do NOT leave a spoon in the pot. I did and decided to give it a stir midway and woke a volcano of hot soap that spewed into the air. Also use a big enough pot to allow a lot of head room until you reach a steady low boil temperature.
Sue
Wow, a lot of help. Thanks a bunch.
Unless a melt-and-pour soap is all natural, it is technically a detergent.
I think your statement is misleading and incorrect.
For example: there are plenty of 100% animal fat or vegetable oil soaps that contain artificial ingredients (making the product not all-natural, yet they're not petroleum detergents--even though they are, by definition, "detergents" because they are surfactants and used for cleaning.
"Detergent" means "cleaning product made from petroleum instead of vegetable or animal fats and oils" in some usages, but some synthetic detergents are made from modified natural oils, usually a modified coconut or palm oil (you'll often see "naturally derived" on the label)--blurring the "all natural" moniker. Further, "detergent" is really just another word for "surfactant" or "cleaner".
So, I don't think "cleaning or lathering product that isn't all-natural" requires the "detergent" label, unless you're using "detergent" in its broadest sense, making all shaving soaps, creams, and lather products with any surfactants "detergents."
http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/ProductandIngredientSafety/ProductInformation/ucm115449.htm
http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/ucm074201.htm
Please read those two links before replying back. They answer the first part about your post. Could you please explain to me why my statement was incorrect?
