Treated lumber ain't what it usta was!

[nortac]

For you older guys, have you noticed that treated pine lumber does not last like it used to? Perhaps because they changed the pressure treating chemicals to be less toxic. It just seems that pressure treated lumber doesn't last even when stained or painted. Boards dry out and split apart or sustain water damage far quicker than they used to. I don't expect it to last forever, but what used to last 15-20 years seems to be falling apart in less than 10 years nowadays. Anyone else noticed this?

 

[ctr]

Yes. Screened porch is painted treated lumber. Built in 2020. Wood is already cracking and splitting.

Have noticed exterior caulk applications seem to last but a couple years now too.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I think they have had to change the chemicals at some point along the way but I think the bigger issue is they're using less of it. Used to be the stuff would stain your hands and clothes.

The splitting thing, I guess I remember that always being an issue to some extent because they would ship them soaking wet and if they didn't have a chance to dry out before you put them in place, they'd tend to split after they dried.

 

[nortac]

I always dry the treated lumber before using, hard to cut when wet and it shrinks as it drys out. Well fitted joints when wet develop big gaps as it drys out. But that has always been true. But I've had 2x6's completely fall apart in about 7 yrs? These were part of a pool privacy fence and had latex stain applied. They should have lasted a lot longer than that.

 

[Kentos]

From rot or insects? I do find that I am fixing exterior rot and termite infestation on newer and newer installs. Mostly decks and gates. I will give the opinion that anything put together with handy dandy screws tend to rot out faster than things put together with nails. My theory is the threads suck moisture in while nails don’t, maybe through capillary action.

 

[nortac]

Not from insects or termites. I do tend to use screws nowadays.

 

[Tha Baron]

The general quality of wood is garbage today compared to what it was…. Hardwoods, lumber just ain’t what it used to

 

[ColtRevolver]

My privacy fence is over 35 years old. The original 4x4 posts are still good. One got broken off 10 or 12 years ago. I have replaced it twice. The first replacement rotted off in the ground in 6 to 8 years.

The big change in the treatment of wood is removing arsenic from the treatment process. That happened about 20 years ago. That's when things started going down hill.

 

[Phoenixkh]

The general quality of wood is garbage today compared to what it was…. Hardwoods, lumber just ain’t what it used to

I think this is the root problem, though I know they’ve had to change the chemicals as well. We have a super fund cleanup area here in town. It was a lumber pressure treatment facility. The ground was contaminated for a long way from the radius. Lots of homes ended up being condemned. A pretty ugly and expensive situation.

I started doing high end remodeling in 1976. The hardwoods at our disposal were amazing. It just isn’t the case anymore. Most of the old growth forests have been harvested. Sad, but it’s true.

 

[Wombat ESQ]

Good ole CCA, lasted for ever because C for copper A for arsenic and C for chromium locked most of the copper and arsenic in, but not all. Which leads to contamination, and never burn it either, arsenic is a forever thing, fire will not break it down.

Now you may as well. .............. ! The new ACQ and CA have a galvanic interaction with zinc screws/nails, but is environmentally friendly? So we chop more trees down to replace an inferior product more often leading to more inferior grade of timber to fuel the vicious circle that spirals ever downward.

 

[StillShaving]

There are a couple of grades sold at the big box stores, one will sometimes see boards marked as PT but not for ground contact. I recently got some exterior stair spindles and they were labeled as "Above Ground pressure treated exterior wood" which makes sense it that they would always be off the ground. And for the stair rail application I was glad to find them relatively dry, unlike the wet PT boards often found in the home center. I don't have much experience building but I decided to use non-PT boards for the hand rail knowing that PT boards have a lot of disadvantages like being more curved, more movement after construction, a problem to paint, etc. and don't offer that much advantage when compared to years ago. After doing the repair I understood why there is a lot of PVC porch railing sold, even though I did not like the look of it (largely because only available in bright white).

I watched this video when it first came out, he mentions that there is a better version used for building something like a lake pier, but I have never seen it.

 

[JCinPA]

I suspect it is a combination of the quality of the wood nowadays and eliminating dangerous chemicals.

I mean if you are a fence installer, maybe the chems matter? But for a homeowner doing and occasional job with wood treated with icky stuff? Who cares?

Yeah, durability sucks now.

 

[musicman1951]

The general quality of wood is garbage today compared to what it was…. Hardwoods, lumber just ain’t what it used to

But at least it's four times as expensive!

 

[luvmysuper]

For ground contact there has been a movement towards using non-ground contact lumber on footings rather than in a post hole or such.
An additional thing to think about is that wood gets wet and wood dries out.
If wood is painted and sealed on every side, any breach in the seal allows water to go in, but prevents letting the water get out. Typically deck planks are painted or stained on top and sides but not on the bottom. This allows a large surface area for the wood to be allowed to dry.

 

[WetShaveVet]

I think this is the root problem, though I know they’ve had to change the chemicals as well. We have a super fund cleanup area here in town. It was a lumber pressure treatment facility. The ground was contaminated for a long way from the radius. Lots of homes ended up being condemned. A pretty ugly and expensive situation.

I started doing high end remodeling in 1976. The hardwoods at our disposal were amazing. It just isn’t the case anymore. Most of the old growth forests have been harvested. Sad, but it’s true.

True but North America is renowned for having hardwood forests that are increasing in size. It is a success story. More board footage in standing timer now than there was 100 years ago. But the average log size is smaller. Particularly in the US and I think private ownership is a big part of it. The families manage the resource for income over decades.

 

[Phoenixkh]

The log size.. and the age... make a huge difference, but I'm guessing you know that.

 

[WetShaveVet]

!t's true. in the early 1900's an FAS board in Red Oak had to be 12" wide and clear 2 face. Now it needs to be 6" wide can have some defects dependent on placement and the back can be down to #1 Common (FAS1F).

Still, it is good that the resource is in cracking good shape. Now, if we could do something about the scourge of single use white oak barrels to make whiskey.............that is what is making good white oak hard to get.

 

[Phoenixkh]

!t's true. in the early 1900's an FAS board in Red Oak had to be 12" wide and clear 2 face. Now it needs to be 6" wide can have some defects dependent on placement and the back can be down to #1 Common (FAS1F).

Still, it is good that the resource is in cracking good shape. Now, if we could do something about the scourge of single use white oak barrels to make whiskey.............that is what is making good white oak hard to get.

I have inhaled far too much oak dust cutting fillers and molding for kitchens. I don’t care for the taste that comes through any alcoholic beverages aged in oak barrels. Some people love 40 year old scotch: to me, it tastes just like that dust from the shop or the portable shop I used to keep in my capped Toyota 4X4.

 

[WetShaveVet]

I wholesale hardwood lumber, plywood, MDF, particleboard and related decorative surfaces. Kiln dried hardwood lumber production in North America is now less than half what it was in 2007 as people buy cheap throw away furniture. You know the name of one global retailer for sure. If there is good news here iy is that those huge logs of great age will one day be available again as the eastern hardwood forests continue to get bigger every year.

I like beer. And you will never see that knock down junk in my house.

 

[Rudy Vey]

We bought our hose here in NJ in 2006. The deck was old and the wood showed some ageing. My wife (!) said she does not like the rough surfaces of the top (horizontal) board of the railing and asked me to replace it - this was probably 2012 or so. Since them I replaced them twice already, the last time last year The treated lumber these days rots faster than untreated wood. What a pita....
There are alternatives to treated lumber, but they are very pricey.