Thinking of Venturing into Honing

[adonnellyr]

I have read through a bit of the honing section, but can't come to a decision, so I figured I'd just outright ask my question because it's helpful to just get a straight answer. I have been using straights long enough now that I can get a DFS or BBS shave on a consistent basis, but while my shaving skills are quite good, I have been afraid to move into honing. I just send my razors off and have them come back all ready to shave with. I strop, of course, but have to admit that I don't think I'm very good at it, which is partially why I haven't tried honing yet. The quality of my shaves upon receiving a nicely honed razor is great, but as the razor comes to rely more and more on my stropping the edge gets worse and my shave quality declines. So right now I have two problems. My stropping is poor and my honing skills are non-existent.

Now to my questions: What hone should I get if I just want one hone for getting my razors shave ready? From the information shared in my opening paragraph, one should be able to see that the razors I am honing are all in very good condition. I won't be restoring, just giving my already shave-ready razors their regular honing over the years. What would be the ideal hone for this? Belgian yellow? Norton 4/8? Something else? perhaps I should also note that I like my razors sharp (I'm the sort of shaver who likes to use a Shavette with a Feather just to have crazy sharp shaves and doesn't care about the lack of forgiveness that comes with it). And to follow that up, if I were to get two hones, what would be a good pair?

OK, now as a less important question, what would be a good strop for me, considering that i am pretty bad at stropping? I don't know what it is, but I just can't go very fast on the strop nor do I feel like I'm getting the razor as sharp as I should. Is there a particular strop that might be better for someone without the best stropping confidence?

So to recap, the questions are 1) What hone should I get? 2) What would be a second hone to compliment that if I could afford it? and 3) What strop should I consider switching to?

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[Chimensch]

I've been shaving with a straight for 29 years. For 28 of those years, all I had was a Swaty barbers hone. In the past year and a half, I discovered the Internet forums and went wild buying and trying everything including CrOx and diamond pastes. The hone that I keep coming back to is a small bonded combination BBW/Yellow coticule that I bought off a member here. There are a whole bunch of hones you could buy that would work and I'm sure someone will come along and argue for all of them from a Naniwa 12K to a Spyderco Ultra-Fine and they will all work. I just happen to like Belgian stones.

As for stropping, if you're not ruining the edge when you strop and you are able to keep your razors going for a couple of weeks after they are honed, you are doing just great.

 

[leighton]

Sounds like they are dulling quicker than they should. Are you stropping after the shave to make sure to get rid of all the corrosion?

I suggest picking up a latigo strop. It gives great feedback. You can really feel the draw when you strop on it correctly. Or, at least thats what I think.

As for hones, I think your on the right train of thought. If your stropping is suspect, you should work on that before investing any money into something that might not be for you. But I like the Nani 12k.

 

[gugi]

what strop do you use? does it have canvas? if not get one with it or make one, if yes use it regularly.
ask the people who honed the razors you like what they used - the final hone that they did would be the one that you want.
before picking up a new hone get the stropping down - more practice and you'll get the hang of it. the wiki over at srp should be quite useful.

 

[Chimensch]

Honing is actually very simple. What makes it sound complicated is that, when straight razor shaivng became a hobby instead of just a way to shave, it was taken over by a bunch of technicians who are striving for levels of sharpness and smoothness way beyond what is necessary for a good shave. In part, they need these high levels of sharpness and smoothness because they never developed the proper shaving technique in the first place.

When I shaved for 28 years with just a barbers hone, I developed a shaving technique that allowed me to get excellent shaves but most people today would say that they couldn't get a comfortable shave off a barbers hone ... and that is true, they can't, despite the fact that millions of men did it for at least a hundred years.

Touching up with a barbers hone couldn't be simpler, a maximum of 5 or 6 pairs of X-strokes. Sure there are finer and finer hones but, IMO and not based on anything scientific beyond my personal experience, each razor, probably due to the steel it is made of, has a limit on how sharp it can get. You can sharpen it beyond that limit and it might stay sharp for a shave or two and then it drops back to its "normal" sharpness. IMO, people who are able to shave for a year without honing or touching up are people who have learned how to shave with their razor's "normal" edge. So, I guess you have a choice to make: either learn how to shave with the razor the way it naturally is, or chase the will-o-the-wisp of the perfectly sharp blade. In reality, there's a middle ground.

I shaved for a long time with a barbers hone but, after trying everything else, I don't want to go back to it. I've also tried four different types of pasted strops. I can get a nice edge off of them but the edges don't last and, so, it's more maintenance than I want to do. IMO, the popularity of the coticule is based on the fact that it provides a comfortable edge that is more durable because it is close to the razor's "normal" edge.

Anyway, the point of this long-winded dissertation is that honing (i.e., touching up a razor with a good bevel) is not in any way difficult, it is only the choice of hone that is confusing. They will all do the job. My recommendation is to pick a hone and learn how to shave off of it. This will force you to improve your technique. Then, if experimenting with new hones gives you pleasure, go for it!

 

[Velomane]

Honing is actually very simple.

Anyway, the point of this long-winded dissertation is that honing (i.e., touching up a razor with a good bevel) is not in any way difficult, it is only the choice of hone that is confusing. They will all do the job. My recommendation is to pick a hone and learn how to shave off of it. This will force you to improve your technique. Then, if experimenting with new hones gives you pleasure, go for it!

Words of wisdom, I suspect. Thanks for the post, it was what this straight razor newbie needed to hear.

 

[cityjim]

Nice reply Chimensch . I tend to agree with your findings .

Most of us know that we can shave off a 1K grit stone . IMO anything approaching an 8K is overkill . Sure it gets sharper but the edge falls off quickly . Then you are chasing that all over again and are never satisfied . Looking for finer stones and powders . The typical American response to anything , more bigger extreme ultra heavy duty magnum overkill everything . All when a simple barbers hone works for many thousands of professionals everyday .

cityjim

 

[Chimensch]

Words of wisdom, I suspect. Thanks for the post, it was what this straight razor newbie needed to hear.

Nice reply Chimensch . I tend to agree with your findings .

Most of us know that we can shave off a 1K grit stone . IMO anything approaching an 8K is overkill . Sure it gets sharper but the edge falls off quickly . Then you are chasing that all over again and are never satisfied . Looking for finer stones and powders . The typical American response to anything , more bigger extreme ultra heavy duty magnum overkill everything . All when a simple barbers hone works for many thousands of professionals everyday .

cityjim

Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate the support. There's one more thing I'd like to add: I consider having learned to shave with a straight to be one of the major accomplishments of my life for the great pleasure that it gives me every day and I get a great deal of satisfaction from helping others discover it.

 

[gugi]

I've also tried four different types of pasted strops. I can get a nice edge off of them but the edges don't last

This sounds like mparker's posts from few years ago. After experimenting a lot more with pastes and strops he has now reversed his position.

Most of us know that we can shave off a 1K grit stone .

There are only few razors that I would consider this with. I've tried it and while possible it's not something I'm willing to endure on a daily basis.
Even with better honing and shaving technique it will not be better than a new disposable, so it's complete waste of time and effort for me. I'm happy to spend the time and effort, but only it the results are better.

 

[Chimensch]

This sounds like mparker's posts from few years ago. After experimenting a lot more with pastes and strops he has now reversed his position.

Modifed but not entirely reversed. See this recent post.

 

[adonnellyr]

Sounds like they are dulling quicker than they should. Are you stropping after the shave to make sure to get rid of all the corrosion?

I don't strop after the shave. I should try that! I might also note, however, that I never feel like with my X pattern of stropping I'm ever hitting all of the blade edge equally, nor am I certain the pressure is equal all along the blade. Is that normal to worry about or likely a sign my stropping is as bad as I suspect?

Honing is actually very simple...

They will all do the job. My recommendation is to pick a hone and learn how to shave off of it. This will force you to improve your technique. Then, if experimenting with new hones gives you pleasure, go for it!

Thanks for this post. I think that gave me a better perspective on honing than I had up to this point. I feel much more confident with it now, like I can just get a hone in the range of what people use and just learn to shave with the edge that results from it.

 

[leighton]

I don't strop after the shave. I should try that! I might also note, however, that I never feel like with my X pattern of stropping I'm ever hitting all of the blade edge equally, nor am I certain the pressure is equal all along the blade. Is that normal to worry about or likely a sign my stropping is as bad as I suspect?

I worry about it when I hone. Probably an unsubstantiated fear. But I always come across those razors with more wear towards the toe and I wonder....

I doubt hitting the blade equally on a strop is as important as when your honing. I think we are in agreement that leather is not abrasive, or at least its so minimally abrasive to not be worth mentioning. I'm not going to discuss linen. Thus, even if one part of the blade gets more stropping than the other parts, if the discrepancy is not too bad, you should be able to compensate by adding more strokes. Have never heard of too much stropping on leather hurting a blade unless through user error.

That is all my slightly informed opinion of course. I'm no strop expert, I defer to mparker for information and testing.

 

[English]

There is no question that Chimensch is correct. We really have made things incredibly complex with just about every hone maker in the world jumping on the bandwagon.

I always found the Belgian coticule required a very light touch to be effective. I tend to be heavy handed and so I looked for other hones which would do the job. I have found two or three with which I am happy. Incidentally, I agree with Chimensch totally that finer grit doesn't necessarily improve the comfort of the shave. I am presently using an 8K Japanese synthetic hone and a horse hide strop to prepare my own razors edges and my daily shaves are very comfortable and close and I get no skin irritation whatsoever. I have to be careful with some higher grit hones not to get the edge too sharp.. Too sharp actually thins the skin in the same way that Feather razors can.

But to answer Anthony. I think that the easiest way to maintain a sharp edge is to use a (Tony Miller) pasted four sided strop for touch up honing every two or three weeks and a a good quality three inch wide strop from Tony Miller for daily stropping. If you like to feel very little friction between the blade and the strop go for horse hide and if you like a bit more "draw" go for the cow hide. If you are worried about nicking the strop, get a practice strop at the same time and use this until you are happy.

If you use the pasted paddle strop, every year or so, you will still need to send the blade for re sharpening. If however you want to do this sharpening work yourself, you will need one combination hone.

The Naniwa 800/5000 combination superhone will do the job perfectly.
The 800 grit will set a perfect bevel and the 5000 grit sharpens the edge beautifully. The paddle strop will then progressively polish the edge to perfection and away you go again for another year until you need to get the Naniwa out of its box again.

Hope that helps.