Tell me more about his blade
- Thread starter zammboss
- Start date
thats a nice little W&B the worked spine looks great
- Thread starter
- #4
the stamp made me think its an early razor too
ide say the scales are a later rescale though
I like the spine work.
- Thread starter
- #8
The whole thing looks wrong.
Not saying it's not a W&B, just saying there are too many different things going on...
I'd say the scales are not original
It looks to be a stub'ish tail but it hollow grind...
And, the stamp is taken out by the grinding...
My guess is at some point, long ago it was reground.
Not saying it's not a W&B, just saying there are too many different things going on...
I'd say the scales are not original
It looks to be a stub'ish tail but it hollow grind...
And, the stamp is taken out by the grinding...
My guess is at some point, long ago it was reground.
I reckon that Brian is spot on. I'd say it started life as a large stiff grind blade. As was the custom years ago, they used to regrind large old razors into smaller, more hollow grind razors. I reckon that's what you have.
I should also say.... don't take it as a bad thing. It should work just as well as any other razor.
Heck, I have a couple reground blades myself.
It not a bad thing, it's just something that was customary years ago.
Heck, I have a couple reground blades myself.
It not a bad thing, it's just something that was customary years ago.
I was thinking re-scale as well. But I was also thinking more like acrylic or horn dyed to look like tortoise, but couldn't tell which. I know that the hot pin test can be used to test horn or plastic (smells like burning hair or burning plastic when touched to an inconspicuous place, inside where it won't be seen), but no idea how to verify genuine tortoise as I've never owned any.
I have seen a bunch of early-ish 1800's that were hollow ground though, enough almost identical models to be convinced that they were original, despite the common belief that they were just too old to not be wedges. But in this case I'd tend to agree with MileMarker about the re-grind.
Have also seen too many that were stamped after the blade was shaped, without regard for the fact that the stamp was only half hitting flat steel, so it's hard to say if the taper in the tang belongs or not.
I just did some searching and found a few other examples of stub tailed W&B's with that stamp, but no definitive answers on grinds or dates, just more guesses. None with worked spines like that. And wedge grinds that appeared to be much newer blades than this (based on tail design and markings), so I'm guessing W&B offered wedges even after they started making hollow's....one more thing to make IDing more difficult
Isn't it fun trying to figure this stuff out when things are approaching 200 years old and even brand new probably only 2 in 10 were truly identical when they left the factory?
I have seen a bunch of early-ish 1800's that were hollow ground though, enough almost identical models to be convinced that they were original, despite the common belief that they were just too old to not be wedges. But in this case I'd tend to agree with MileMarker about the re-grind.
Have also seen too many that were stamped after the blade was shaped, without regard for the fact that the stamp was only half hitting flat steel, so it's hard to say if the taper in the tang belongs or not.
I just did some searching and found a few other examples of stub tailed W&B's with that stamp, but no definitive answers on grinds or dates, just more guesses. None with worked spines like that. And wedge grinds that appeared to be much newer blades than this (based on tail design and markings), so I'm guessing W&B offered wedges even after they started making hollow's....one more thing to make IDing more difficult
Isn't it fun trying to figure this stuff out when things are approaching 200 years old and even brand new probably only 2 in 10 were truly identical when they left the factory?
- Thread starter
- #13
stub tails die out around 1840-1850. Most hollow grinds didn't start until around 1870
As for the scales, since it has bolster, there's a high chance they're celluloid, acrylic, ect..
you guys are awesome! that's why I like asking before I spend 15-30$ on something that will be still worth nothing after a restoreI promise you all that I WILL one day be an educated wet shaver member!!!
Not every razor is worth a ton, some are just great shavers
It looks to be in OK shape, so if you wanted to throw $15 at it, I'm pretty sure you won't loose any money.
That's the part I'm having a hard time buying into. I have a Marshes and Shepherds that's been narrowed down to 1837-1846, hollow ground with a double shoulder and both thumb and finger notches on the tang. I spent a ton of time researching to get that one figured out and found many, many other blades in that age range that were hollow ground. Now, I know that was a common practice to re-grind used blades, but in particular I found a handful of pictures of other Marshes that were way to close to identical in every way. Along with other razors that had etched blades or spine work/engraving/stamp placement that just fit too perfectly with the design of the blade to believe that anything was changed. I could always be wrong.....but I've yet to find anything definitive enough to really be convinced.
Back on the topic of this one though.....like you said, it's still a re-ground early 1800's W&B, with bonus spine work....I'd spend $15 on it and not blink an eye
Not to say it not possible, anything is but I would doubt there were double stabilizer razors factory made in the 1840. But like I said I guess anything is possible
The 2 stabilizer grind came after the hollow ground razor in the 1870's
Don't under estimate the ability of razor smiths that were regrind razors. Sure there were hack jobs that are easy to tell. But on the same note there are example that you can't tell it was ever altered.
I have a Greaves "for barbers use" that I dates to around the 1850's. That being said, it's hollow ground with double shoulders. I have no doubt, it was reground. I've seen example what it use to look like...lol
But the fact remain, the person that reground the blade did a pro job. There's nothing that's really "off" other then the fact they didn't grind double shoulders in 1850.
The 2 stabilizer grind came after the hollow ground razor in the 1870's
Don't under estimate the ability of razor smiths that were regrind razors. Sure there were hack jobs that are easy to tell. But on the same note there are example that you can't tell it was ever altered.
I have a Greaves "for barbers use" that I dates to around the 1850's. That being said, it's hollow ground with double shoulders. I have no doubt, it was reground. I've seen example what it use to look like...lol
But the fact remain, the person that reground the blade did a pro job. There's nothing that's really "off" other then the fact they didn't grind double shoulders in 1850.
I don't mean for this to sound rude.....but I just stumbled across the ebay listing for this razor. Reading the item description would've at least told you that the scales are plastic, not tortoise
at the $15 you mentioned I would've grabbed for it, at the $35 they're asking for as an opening bid.....I might be just a little on the fence, but still wouldn't rule it out
Closer pics show a little bit of jaggedness on the edge, but nothing that I would assume couldn't be honed through, in case you're still considering it
at the $15 you mentioned I would've grabbed for it, at the $35 they're asking for as an opening bid.....I might be just a little on the fence, but still wouldn't rule it out
Closer pics show a little bit of jaggedness on the edge, but nothing that I would assume couldn't be honed through, in case you're still considering it
You can't always tell from the listing, believe me. My score today said it had imitation tortoise scales. The seller told me she wasn't sure if they were real or not, but she couldn't put that they were real because ebay wouldn't let her list it (no products from endangered species).
She didn't know the age of the razor, but I did. The scales are real, and contemporary with the very old blade. For those wondering, over time real tortoise and died horn age very differently. Tortoise scales can look almost new, even after two or three hundred years. They actually look and feel like the acetate my Persol sunglasses are made of. The died horn is usually flatter, less glossy, and the colours are muted. I'm not sure what they looked like new, but that is how they are now.
Oh, and to the OP, definite regrind of a more wedge blade, done around 1880-90ish by someone professional. I believe that spine work might have been done at the time of the regrind, and the scales, which are some sort of cellulose plastic, would have been put on then. Just to add my 2c to what the others have already said above.
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