Spacer Washers - Optional or Required?

[skald]

I just did a quick repair on a new razor. I removed the scales and tidied up some rust and discolouration on the blade.

The razor had spacer washers around the pivot point, and I left them off when I reassembled it. None of my other razors have them, and I didn't like how fat they made the razor feel.

The razor is a wacker with buffalo scales.

Am I going to regret this decision? Are pivot washers a matter of personal choice, or are they part of some specific designs? The razor feels snug and opens and closes nicely, but this new configuration does mean that the scales push against the shank a bit when the razor is closed, as this razor has quite a substantial shank.

If I have to take this thing apart again, I'd like to know before I sharpen it; I recently had to do some repair on a sharp razor, and I learned how much better it is to work on dull blades than sharp ones! (It was nothing horrible, but I noticed the blade trying to grab my skin on several occasions, and it was a little bit nerve wracking!)

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Legion]

Optional. If the razor came with them I will usually put them back, but most of the time I don’t worry about it. I certainly don’t go out of my way to buy or make new ones.

 

[skald]

Excellent!

That was what I expected!

Thanks for putting my mind at ease.

Optional. If the razor came with them I will usually put them back, but most of the time I don’t worry about it. I certainly don’t go out of my way to buy or make new ones.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I just did a quick repair on a new razor. I removed the scales and tidied up some rust and discolouration on the blade.

The razor had spacer washers around the pivot point, and I left them off when I reassembled it. None of my other razors have them, and I didn't like how fat they made the razor feel.

The razor is a wacker with buffalo scales.

Am I going to regret this decision? Are pivot washers a matter of personal choice, or are they part of some specific designs? The razor feels snug and opens and closes nicely, but this new configuration does mean that the scales push against the shank a bit when the razor is closed, as this razor has quite a substantial shank.

If I have to take this thing apart again, I'd like to know before I sharpen it; I recently had to do some repair on a sharp razor, and I learned how much better it is to work on dull blades than sharp ones! (It was nothing horrible, but I noticed the blade trying to grab my skin on several occasions, and it was a little bit nerve wracking!)

Thanks for any advice.

If I'm unpinning a razor I usually put a piece of electrical tape over the edge to protect the blade and my fingers.

 

[2bit_collie]

If I'm unpinning a razor I usually put a piece of electrical tape over the edge to protect the blade and my fingers.

yes! Me too!

 

[Frank Shaves]

^
Me too. For the record, I finally restored a razor without inflicting a single cut on my fingers. And the tape thing helped.

 

[rbscebu]

Spacer washers have their use when required. They stop the tang/shank of the blade from rubbing on the inside of the scales. This can be an important feature if the scales material is more easily worn away. They also even out the friction on the pivot arrangement through all angles of opening/closing the blade as the contact area with the steel remains unchanged at all angles.

 

[Gamma]

Everything is optional.
Thing is, Herr Wacker knows a thing or two about making razors. I think it's fair to assume that he knows what he's doing. I'd pretty much bet he doesn't do stuff for no reason. He is, after all, a master in his field.

Thrust washers help keep the scales from wearing. They can also help keep the pin tension static. I also believe that they help smooth the action out a bit.

Are they 100% necessary? Depends on one's perspective. The razor will assemble and work without them, for sure.
Technically, scales aren't needed either, we 'could' just use the blade like a kamisori.

Me, I add thrust washer when there were none present originally. When they are present during disassembly, I either clean them up and reuse the originals, are replace them. Often they're worn irregularly so I usually wind up changing them.

At the end of the day it's up to the owner/user really. It's one of those things where no one can say they must be there because, obviously, not every razor has them.

 

[Lefonque]

Everything is optional.
Thing is, Herr Wacker knows a thing or two about making razors. I think it's fair to assume that he knows what he's doing. I'd pretty much bet he doesn't do stuff for no reason. He is, after all, a master in his field.

Thrust washers help keep the scales from wearing. They can also help keep the pin tension static. I also believe that they help smooth the action out a bit.

Are they 100% necessary? Depends on one's perspective. The razor will assemble and work without them, for sure.
Technically, scales aren't needed either, we 'could' just use the blade like a kamisori.

Me, I add thrust washer when there were none present originally. When they are present during disassembly, I either clean them up and reuse the originals, are replace them. Often they're worn irregularly so I usually wind up changing them.

At the end of the day it's up to the owner/user really. It's one of those things where no one can say they must be there because, obviously, not every razor has them.

Agreed,

 

[skald]

Thanks for all of the advice! It's very helpful!

That is a good point about the manufacturer knowing what's what - though I'm not 100% sure whether this razor was in original condition, frankly. It could easily have been rescaled before I got it (it was "new" to me, but not new).

All very helpful perspectives!

Thanks

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Most vintage razors have brass thrust washers to make the action smoother, protect the scales and provide some friction to hold a blade open.

You can make a brass thrust washer by smashing a 00 brass washer (Micro Fasteners, 00= 7/64 in OD) with a hammer on any flat steel, you will likely need to re drill the pine hole as it will shrink, I use a 1/16 inch drill in a pin vise. Flatten to about half the thickness I have done that for years.

Lately I have been making PETE, clear thrust washer, because brass washers turn black and look unsightly on translucent and Ivory scales.

I punch them out of a clear, smooth water bottle with a leather pliers type punch, use the largest punch about ¼ inch, then punch a center hole 1/16th inch. You can center by eye or lay two pieces of electrical tape on the punch anvil and cut a ¼ inch hole, then remove the center of the tape that is stuck to the anvil. Now place your precut ¼ inch plastic disc into the hole cut in the tape and voilà, the 1/16th in, hole will be perfectly centered. Centered is not critical unless the scales are translucent.

They are super thin, slick, yet grippy and last forever. Will never rust or oxidize almost invisible in clear or transparent scales. You can make a bunch from a single water bottle.

Don’t think I would un and re-pin unless you have an issue, horn is very forgiving and will burnish smooth.

Here is a Dubl Duck original translucent scale repined with PETE, originals were black. Note the black staining on the Duck Dwarf from the original brass thrust washers.

 

[skald]

Weird! For some reason, NONE of mine do.

I'm fairly new to collecting these (after using the same one since the 90s) but none of mine have ever had washers till this one. I have a pre-1890 Wade and Butcher, Geneva from the 20s, a couple of Bokers from the 40s and a soviet razor from the 60s, and none of them have brass washers! My modern Dovo and modern Thiers-Issard don't either (though that last one doesn't have original scales, so who knows what went on there). And not a thrust washer in the lot!

Clearly I need to buy some more to get a better representative sample size!



The clear washers are a clever idea, though of course I kept the brass ones I pulled out of the Wacker in case I regretted my decision later!

Most vintage razors have brass thrust washers to make the action smoother, protect the scales and provide some friction to hold a blade open.

You can make a brass thrust washer by smashing a 00 brass washer (Micro Fasteners, 00= 7/64 in OD) with a hammer on any flat steel, you will likely need to re drill the pine hole as it will shrink, I use a 1/16 inch drill in a pin vise. Flatten to about half the thickness I have done that for years.

Lately I have been making PETE, clear thrust washer, because brass washers turn black and look unsightly on translucent and Ivory scales.

I punch them out of a clear, smooth water bottle with a leather pliers type punch, use the largest punch about ¼ inch, then punch a center hole 1/16th inch. You can center by eye or lay two pieces of electrical tape on the punch anvil and cut a ¼ inch hole, then remove the center of the tape that is stuck to the anvil. Now place your precut ¼ inch plastic disc into the hole cut in the tape and voilà, the 1/16th in, hole will be perfectly centered. Centered is not critical unless the scales are translucent.

They are super thin, slick, yet grippy and last forever. Will never rust or oxidize almost invisible in clear or transparent scales. You can make a bunch from a single water bottle.

Don’t think I would un and re-pin unless you have an issue, horn is very forgiving and will burnish smooth.

Here is a Dubl Duck original translucent scale repined with PETE, originals were black. Note the black staining on the Duck Dwarf from the original brass thrust washers.

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[Legion]

Weird! For some reason, NONE of mine do.

I'm fairly new to collecting these (after using the same one since the 90s) but none of mine have ever had washers till this one. I have a pre-1890 Wade and Butcher, Geneva from the 20s, a couple of Bokers from the 40s and a soviet razor from the 60s, and none of them have brass washers! My modern Dovo and modern Thiers-Issard don't either (though that last one doesn't have original scales, so who knows what went on there). And not a thrust washer in the lot!

Clearly I need to buy some more to get a better representative sample size!



The clear washers are a clever idea, though of course I kept the brass ones I pulled out of the Wacker in case I regretted my decision later!

I've unbuttoned dozens, quite a few dozens, and I'd say the percentage of razors that have them originally is between 10-20%.

 

[skald]

I've unbuttoned dozens, quite a few dozens, and I'd say the percentage of razors that have them originally is between 10-20%.

Well, there you go. I only have 5, so I might have slipped the statistics. Clearly time to acquire more!

 

[Ice-Man]

If I remove any scales for any reason cleaning making new scales I will always put ones in, more so to stop the water trap between scales and tang where they seem to always rust. And the ones I put in are always brass never steel, plus it adds a gap so the scales don't scratch or mark the tang so it stays nicer for longer.

But I do like the idea of the clear plastic ones that's been posted above by @H Brad Boonshaft that is a fantastic idea.

 

[Legion]

If I remove any scales for any reason cleaning making new scales I will always put ones in, more so to stop the water trap between scales and tang where they seem to always rust. And the ones I put in are always brass never steel, plus it adds a gap so the scales don't scratch or mark the tang so it stays nicer for longer.

But I do like the idea of the clear plastic ones that's been posted above by @H Brad Boonshaft that is a fantastic idea.

My feeling has always been, by adding two washers, you have increased the surfaces that can trap water from four to eight.

Admittedly, the only two that matter are on either side of the tang, but trapped moisture nearby is going to be an issue.

 

[Ice-Man]

My feeling has always been, by adding two washers, you have increased the surfaces that can trap water from four to eight.

Admittedly, the only two that matter are on either side of the tang, but trapped moisture nearby is going to be an issue.

Well yes, and no you're making a gap, yes but you are adding a gap for airflow, and it's not going to trap water between the tang and scales along the length.

So it's serving two purposes its reduced the contact to the area of the washer, but if you dip that in rubbing alcohol that removes the water. Then use a keyboard duster aerosol to blow it out, then you have removed all in a minute or two and no rubbing of scales against the tang.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Or don’t get the pivot wet.

I rarely get the pivot wet.

 

[Ice-Man]

Or don’t get the pivot wet.

I rarely get the pivot wet.

Same here I wipe the blade it never sees water only a kitchen roll or a sponge, But I did buy one of these two years ago

 

[Slash McCoy]

I don't like inside washers. It interferes with proper fitting and action of the pivot. But it is not a dealbreaker. I just never put them, myself.