Soap vs. cream: inferior shave?

[dgcesq]

I've been using Art of Shaving shave cream. I picked up a puck of Williams Mug soap. Since switching (a week ago), my shaves are rougher, I have more nicks, more razor burn. Is this to be expected - in other words, are creams that much easier on your face? Or is this more indicative of a technique flaw that the cream has been masking? Or is Williams just inferior soap - although from the reviews, everyone seems to love it.

I use a Merkur adjustable, and I've dialed it all the way back to 1 this week. I use feather blades, and a homemade preshave oil based on grape seed oil, glycerin, and vitamin E. I shower, put on the oil, then lather on the face (with cream, I lather directly on the face; with soap, I start the lather in the mug, then finish building lather on the face).

Thanks for the help. Sorry for the long email, just trying to give detail.

Dave

 

[SiBurning]

Get a better soap. Williams just plain sucks! Which is better? Pretty much anything.

Between a crowd of masochists intent on shaving for free and the lack of incentive for anyone that hates a product to review it.... Nevermind the reviews.

 

[mkornecki]

I've got to say that I have revisited my non-vintage williams puck the last two shaves, and the lather was just awesome. Definitely need to work with it in a different way though.

 

[charismata]

I have actually made 2 batches of soap with identical ingredients. One batch made with sodium to be a solid soap. The other made with potassium to be a soft or cream soap. If there were any differences in the lather or performance, they were so minor that I couldn't discern them.

So all things being equal, I don't believe there is anything inherent in solid soap or cream soap that would give one an advantage over the other. All things being equal...

 

[The Last Chimney]

Get a better soap. Williams just plain sucks! Which is better? Pretty much anything.

+1. If you want to try something available, cheap, and consistently a good performer, drop by Wal-Mart and get a puck of Van der Hagen soap.

Otherwise, as SiBurning said, pick a random soap from any decent shaving vendor site, and it'll be better than Williams.

 

[SliceOfLife]

If anything I find soaps have a bit better slip and cushion, though I suspect that is almost entirely due to the fact that they get worked more during lathering. The primary (only?) advantage I've found in my very limited use of creams (a few I made to test recipes and a sampler I got with a brush purchase) is that they require no effort to load the brush, so it's impossible to fail to properly load the brush, which is probably 25-50% of the causes for difficulty lathering soaps people encounter.

Williams is a particularly difficult soap to lather because it is extremely high bubble, so you have to load the brush well, work it hard and add water slow to manage a creamy lather with it. As a result, most people who attempt it wind up with airy, dry, awful lather. It actually makes good lather, but the amount of work it takes most people to get there is just unreasonable when there are so many easier soaps out there (and once you consider the lifespan of the pucks (My modern williams lasted maybe 40 lathers by my guess, Tabac is at 30 or 40 and I see NO change in puck size), the price difference really isn't there.

 

[Carolina Kiltman]

I have actually made 2 batches of soap with identical ingredients. One batch made with sodium to be a solid soap. The other made with potassium to be a soft or cream soap. If there were any differences in the lather or performance, they were so minor that I couldn't discern them.

So all things being equal, I don't believe there is anything inherent in solid soap or cream soap that would give one an advantage over the other. All things being equal...

This is pretty much my experience. I have used many soaps over the last 60+ years, and find that anything that will produce a decent lather will work, some are easier to lather than others, including the modern formula Williams!

Just to name a few; home-made lye soap, based mostly on lard and chicken fat, glycerin soap, the kind found in cute little rounds and fancy boxes, US Navy salt water soap (and salt water too boot, the less said about that experience the better) and various creams and pre-packaged aerosol lathers, and the old formula BurmaShave (brushless). Only the razor remained the constant, and I got acceptable shaves.

So my advice is to just shop around, and find the best that suits you and your wallet.



My experience is that the pre-wash is more important than the shaving soap itself.

 

[blood_type_O]

I think a regular bar of Dove soap is better than Williams. Try Dove when you are in a pinch.

 

[Optometrist]

Whilst I began with creams, apart from CF limes, I am now dedicated to soaps. Why? I get a much slicker lather despite taking longer to load the brush. The result is a shave that's much closer than with any cream I've tried. Used CF this morning after 6 days with soaps, and despite the quality, it just didn't feel as close. Just my opinion, and there are both very good and very poor soaps, but for me it's soaps all the way!

David

 

[Marc59]

The cream and the soap have no same effects. This is of for their respective composition. Generally speaking the cream has for advantage to ease the skin, and to protect it irritations. She has above all a protective function.

The leading part of the shaving soap is to soften the hair, to facilitate the cutting. Naturally, a soap can also have properties similar to the cream, but its first function is to prepare the hair.

I notice this when I alternate according to days between cream and soap: the passage of the blade is much more cutting on a skin prepared with the soap.

 

[DE Shaver]

I vacillate between soaps and creams all the time. Currently, my shaving "soap" of choice is actually a shaving "paste" of sorts. Too thick to be a cream but not solid. Regardless, the quality of the soap, whether it is solid or in a cream form, is the main determinate of the quality of the lather (and by extension the quality of cushioning, lubricity, etc...)

Personally, I don't find all that much difference between the form factors of creams and soaps when it comes to shaving.

 

[TenorClef]

I've tried the TOBS sandalwood soap and cream. I'd say the cream has the slight edge in my preference, lathers really nice and smells great. The Soap is also good not as thick a lather but that could be my technique I suppose. The Cream doesn't last very long (maybe because i use to much?), the soap seems to have really good longevity, still on my first puck which i got at Xmas 09 and smells nice too.

 

[ambrose]

Get a better soap. Williams just plain sucks! Which is better? Pretty much anything.

Between a crowd of masochists intent on shaving for free and the lack of incentive for anyone that hates a product to review it.... Nevermind the reviews.

+1

I use both soaps and creams. I find creams are easy to lather, are nicer and stronger scented than the soap versions. The lather tends to be not as dense or rich as a soap though. Only Forbes has the best of both I think.

 

[Drubbing]

Living in a Williams free zone, it appears it just sucks, or at least not the product for inexperienced latherers.

And that's the main thing with soaps in general, lathering requires a bit of technique. But soaps are not inferior to cream. I use both, but have a preference for soap.

 

[michiganlover]

Or is Williams just inferior soap - although from the reviews, everyone seems to love it.

Dave, I think you need to do far more reading on the board. The current formulation of Williams is one of the hottest contested soaps on the board. There are people who say it works well for them, and people who say it is an utter disaster as a shaving soap, and totally worthless.

The people who think it is wretchedly bad seem to far outweigh those for whom the product works.

Get a better soap. Williams just plain sucks! Which is better? Pretty much anything.

+1,000,000. Williams (in it's current formulation) is a flat out horrible soap. Don't write off all soaps on the market based upon your experience with one of the worst that is available. Buy yourself a puck of Tabac, and you will notice the lather produced is eons better than anything Williams is capable of making!!

Go down to your local Wal-Mart, and pick up a puck of Van Der Hagen Deluxe (VDH Deluxe) it is lightyears better than Williams, and a wonderful product.

 

[insomniac]

I'm not a Williams hater, but honestly it is not a great soap for the beginner. Williams takes some work and expertise to have it be a proper shaving soap.

As someone mentioned, you could try Van der Hagen which is cheap and available. It is also a glycerin soap, which IMHO don't tend to be as good as tallow soaps.

I'd consider getting one of the inexpensive and popular tallow soaps, such as Tabac, or even a shaving stick. That will provide a good soap shaving experience for you.

 

[Sueto]

You went from AoS cream to Williams... That is going to be a huge difference to start with. So I wouldn't chalk up that experience to what you might expect from other soaps. The soaps I have used have been just as good as the creams I have used. I have had a reasonably good sample of each to go by. If you like AoS cream, perhaps trying the same scent in their soap would be a good test. Their soaps are pretty good.

 

[DFrancis]

If you've been using the AOS cream, why not pick up a puck of AOS soap?

 

[dgcesq]

Thanks to everyone for their responses. Just wanted to give an update.

First, I ordered new soap - Taylor of Old Bond Street. I have high hopes for it.

Second: I started working harder on the lather. It's pretty apparent that using a good cream can make you lazy. This whole time I probably have not been working hard enough to create a really good lather, since the cream sort of lets you off easy. So I put in some more elbow grease (but not a ton more), and got a really solid lather. However, when I shaved with it over the weekend, I noticed that the blade was still not really gliding on the skin. The reason: you can have a good lather that is not wet enough. I think of it as "dry lather". It looks right, it looks thick, but it isn't really wet enough to do the job. So today I used a little more water to make the lather. More importantly, I put on th shave oil and then splashed hot water on top of that before adding lather. The result: today I have a good shave. Not great, but much better than it was.

The lesson: Williams does make good lather, but you have to figure it out first. The second lesson: if you learn to wet shave with a good cream, you need more technique work when you switch to soap.

Thanks for all your comments.

 

[cymric]

I have actually made 2 batches of soap with identical ingredients. One batch made with sodium to be a solid soap. The other made with potassium to be a soft or cream soap. If there were any differences in the lather or performance, they were so minor that I couldn't discern them.

Actually there is a difference: sodium soaps have lower (sometimes much lower) solubility at the same temperature than potassium soaps. A while ago I came across an article dating back to 1947 or 1948 where this was measured. This could very well affect the ability to pick up soap with a brush, as well as the formation of lather.

But other than that there is no fundamental difference between cream or soap which would make one inherently worse than the other.