Skipped the WTG pass. Nice.

[TheKman]

On a whim yesterday (because I was late for work actually) I skipped the WTG pass and went with across and against with some light buffing hoping to get a reasonable shave in a short time. To my surprise it was not only faster, but more comfortable and almost as good as a full 3-pass with buffing. Certainly more that satisfactory for the office.

I'd recently taken a break from using alum because I thought it no longer necessary, but having developed a few extra ingrowns recently I've started again. Normally after a full 3+ pass shave I'd have an appreciable amount of sting. After this 2+ shave there was only a tiny bit of sting in my difficult patches at the chin/lip crease. Very surprised.

Anyone else share this experience?

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I can relate, Dave. For a long time, I've been doing XTG-ATG-ATG daily shaves. WTG doesn't seem to do anything at all, XTG does little but seems to be a good start, and the two ATG passes with buffing are the real workhorses. I used to do XTG-ATG daily shaves, but the extra ATG pass really helps me get a closer shave. It's not like I'm getting BBS shaves yet, but I'm hoping to get there someday.

 

[Esox]

On a whim yesterday (because I was late for work actually) I skipped the WTG pass and went with across and against with some light buffing hoping to get a reasonable shave in a short time. To my surprise it was not only faster, but more comfortable and almost as good as a full 3-pass with buffing. Certainly more that satisfactory for the office.

I'd recently taken a break from using alum because I thought it no longer necessary, but having developed a few extra ingrowns recently I've started again. Normally after a full 3+ pass shave I'd have an appreciable amount of sting. After this 2+ shave there was only a tiny bit of sting in my difficult patches at the chin/lip crease. Very surprised.

Anyone else share this experience?

I shave every 48 hours and I only shave ATG.

With my Fatip Grande and a Polsilver or Gillette Yellow, one buffing pass ATG and one very light clean up on my neck.

A rigid razor, with little gap, a sharp blade and a good idea of your beard map, makes it surprisingly easy.

My single pass ATG shaves started here on shave 7 with my Fatip Grande and a Feather blade.

I've never used alum however, but with a razor with little gap and a very sharp blade, I dont get any irritation with so few passes.

Gap in a razors design, for me at least, makes irritation accumulate with more than 3 passes with any razor, post war Tech included.

 

[TheKman]

@ShavingByTheNumbers And how does that work out for you in terms of irritation? I ask because I've never really experimented much with different passes or in different order/combination, it's usually a 2-pass (WTG & XTG) for Sunday lunch and a break, or 3-pass for work days.

I'm constantly challenging the assumptions I've made or the accepted wisdom I've adopted to improve the experience, this is just another step I suppose. Prep, soap, brush, razor, blade, astringent, aftershave, all have been changed for the better. When I realised that WTG passes were doing nothing on my lower neck I changed to two XTG passes, which is probably what subconsciously inspired the trial, truth be told.

@Esox There's also been some challenge to my notion that blade rigidity isn't all that important lately, so this will be the next item on the trial list. I've got a handful of very old Gillette blades (rounded sides and three holes only, don't remember what they are exactly) which are good for nothing but shims (rust). These will be re-purposed for some testing in the Rockwell 6S, possibly this week. I suspect a #1 plate with a shim might be a good place to start the 1-pass experiment perhaps? Small gap, Perma-Sharp blade maybe? All my other razors are a rigid design so the comparison won't be all that direct.

 

[Esox]

There's also been some challenge to my notion that blade rigidity isn't all that important lately, so this will be the next item on the trial list. I've got a handful of very old Gillette blades (rounded sides and three holes only, don't remember what they are exactly) which are good for nothing but shims (rust). These will be re-purposed for some testing in the Rockwell 6S, possibly this week. I suspect a #1 plate with a shim might be a good place to start the 1-pass experiment perhaps? Small gap, Perma-Sharp blade maybe? All my other razors are a rigid design so the comparison won't be all that direct.

The biggest advantage regarding a single pass shave I think is blade exposure. Not everyone needs a rigid design, but it certainly helps with shaving ATG, even on a 3rd pass. Doing so on a first pass at 48+ hours of growth makes it all the more important.

As far as gap is concerned, see the pics below of my Fatip Grande vs my NEW SC.



The NEW SC really has a modest gap at .023", but the Fatip has virtually none at all. In shaving with the NEW SC starting directly ATG it worked fine, it was comfortable and smooth, but it still took me my usual 2 1/2 passes to get the same BBS shave in the end. With the Grande, 1 pass and really, two swipes in different directions per side of my adams apple over my two swirl growth patterns.

Thats because the Grande, being just as rigid a design, but having more blade exposure, making that razor much more effective. Its easily twice as efficient as the NEW SC, because of the blade exposure.



Me not liking gap in a razor design is just my personal preference as I've found that even with the NEW SC being a rigid design, my usual shave is 2 1/2 passes, 3 passes being ok. Once I go beyond 3 passes, my irritation grows quickly.

With my Grande and a Kai blade, I actually needed 5 passes for the same BBS shave, all directly ATG, and yet I had no irritation whatsoever.

Gap has an effect on the skin in that when shaving there is, for lack of a better phrase, a wave of skin that fills the gap. That skin is essentially forced into the blade edge making the razor more effective, but a by product of that, for me certainly, is accumulating irritation from consecutive passes. With a razor offering generous blade exposure, more passes arent needed for the same level of shave.

This can get very complex, but I believe on page #5 in my journal I went over how gap affects my shave and I went over similar topics in this thread: Damn Comfortable Shave
https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/damn-comfortable-shave.526419/page-49#post-9308864
Its taken me since April of this year to figure out what works the best for me. It may work well for others or it may not. I am confident in saying that a rigid blade will help virtually everyone in shaving ATG. For a single pass BBS shave, I'd say it's essential.

 

[TheKman]

I confess there is far too much content on the subject for me to read in a timely fashion. The DCS thread is up to, what, 50 pages now? Pfst! No chance. How do I find your journal?

I get what you mean about the blade gap, though I prefer to imagine the guard span/blade/cap span shaving plane as a two-dimensional picture rather that a single-dimensional data point. In the minds eye I have a movie playing which shows how the skin swells and retreats from the contact points... Narrow guard span plus low blade exposure plus wide cap span - Rockwell 6S plate #3 - has so far proved to be a winning formula for me.

Anyway, that's item 'F' in the list, I'm still on item 'B'.

 

[santamariasteve]

Kman, To evaluate how useful your interesting experience is to the rest of us, you need to tell us about your whiskers: Mild, Average, or Heavy?

 

[Esox]

The link I gave to that thread will open at the post I was referring too. Or post #975.

My single pass ATG shaves started here on shave 7 with my Fatip Grande and a Feather blade.

My journal is linked in my above post. If you click on "shave 7" it will open at shave #7 where I started shaving directly ATG with a Feather blade. All shaves starting with that one are directly ATG shaves trying different blades.

Yeah it will be different for everyone as we all have different skin types, beard densities, coarseness, growth directions ect.

I cant remember when I was on "B", but I have my shaves pretty well dialed in now. Once the combination surfaces for shaving Nirvana, life is so much better lol.

 

[TheKman]

@Esox Sorry, I missed the links, will have a read. That's 'B' on the current list, the full list goes through the alphabet a couple of times now.

Kman, To evaluate how useful your interesting experience is to the rest of us, you need to tell us about your whiskers: Mild, Average, or Heavy?

I call my beard less than normally dense, but not quite sparse. Whiskers are probably on the coarser side of average as I'm getting older. It's the skin that poses the real challenge for me, lots of moles and scaring from acne as a teen. I characterise it as fragile; nicks and cuts are easily opened and irritation is a constant challenge. I'm also certain that at least some of the irritation I encounter is caused by fragrances, so software choices are not trivial either.

 

[Esox]

Sorry, I missed the links, will have a read. That's 'B' on the current list, the full list goes through the alphabet a couple of times now.

I know the feeling. We're not alone either lol.

 

[TheKman]

I wonder if BOSC needs a Spacial Branch?

EDIT: "Spacial Branch". Hah! Freudian slip.. I meant Special Branch.

 

[Esox]

We're all special in BOSC

 

[Johnnynroy]

Regarding shaving software issues: what soap are you using currently? Do you have issues with tallow or lanolin? I don’t have issues with either but do with synthetic fragrances. Cella and haslinger have been fantastic for my skin. Oddly enough, proraso red also hasn’t irritated it. No clue how it hasn’t but I’ll take it. My favorite soap scent I’ve yet encountered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheKman]

Haslinger and MWF are the current favourites, or Fat 'as in combination (@MntnMan62 started a thread on it). Lanolin = good! Tallow too. Not sure which ones cause issues to be honest, but Proraso White balm is great as are a host of natural products I'm using.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

@ShavingByTheNumbers And how does that work out for you in terms of irritation? I ask because I've never really experimented much with different passes or in different order/combination, it's usually a 2-pass (WTG & XTG) for Sunday lunch and a break, or 3-pass for work days.

I'm constantly challenging the assumptions I've made or the accepted wisdom I've adopted to improve the experience, this is just another step I suppose. Prep, soap, brush, razor, blade, astringent, aftershave, all have been changed for the better. When I realised that WTG passes were doing nothing on my lower neck I changed to two XTG passes, which is probably what subconsciously inspired the trial, truth be told.

I haven't experimented much with passes lately, but when I did, I settled on the XTG-ATG-ATG shave with a lot of short strokes (buffing) for effectiveness, even though irritation and cuts are more likely to be issues than if I stuck with only one ATG pass. That second ATG (third overall) pass can be irritating to my skin and push things too far, but it's all a combination of equipment and technique, as you know. I totally get what you're saying about reexamining your shaving judgments in order to improve the experience. That must be a part of what makes us BOSC material. I haven't felt a need lately to change up my shaving passes, but I'm open to changes in the future. I'm always open to reexamining blades, especially with new razors, but I've been using the Kai blade a lot lately because of past experience that seemed to show me over and over again how my hair needs a sharper blade. You know how I've been evaluating soaps, right, so that's an ongoing examination. I'm always experimenting with my homemade non-astringent toner whenever I make a new batch about once a month. The only thing that's stable for me, and actually has been this way for years, is how I use Nivea post-shave balm for sensitive skin. It might not be the best thing, but it's good and I've liked it better than anything else I've tried. As with other things shaving related, though, I'm willing to make a change to something better if the evidence is there.

 

[FoxInfinitySunset]

After reading another post yesterday about skipping WTG passes I decided to give it a try today. I went XTG-ATG-ATG with a few touch touch ups and got a great shave. Low irritation and it will be better tomorrow as I worked out kinks today on the angles to use on my neck. Also using a Derby Extra blade 5-6 shaves in was unwise probably.
Recently I'd been experimenting with two passes WTG then ATG and it was not working. This is much better.

 

[pbrmhl]

I can relate, Dave. For a long time, I've been doing XTG-ATG-ATG daily shaves. WTG doesn't seem to do anything at all, XTG does little but seems to be a good start, and the two ATG passes with buffing are the real workhorses. I used to do XTG-ATG daily shaves, but the extra ATG pass really helps me get a closer shave. It's not like I'm getting BBS shaves yet, but I'm hoping to get there someday.

I have never done WTG passes. I do two passes: S to N, and each ear to nose. Those two passes are each a combo of ATG and XTG. And I constantly buff. I suspect every square millimeter of my face gets at least ten passes. Works for me, and I don't quit until I have BBS (unless I can't hear and feel the cutting--in which case I abandon the razor)!

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

After reading another post yesterday about skipping WTG passes I decided to give it a try today. I went XTG-ATG-ATG with a few touch touch ups and got a great shave. Low irritation and it will be better tomorrow as I worked out kinks today on the angles to use on my neck. Also using a Derby Extra blade 5-6 shaves in was unwise probably.
Recently I'd been experimenting with two passes WTG then ATG and it was not working. This is much better.

I have never done WTG passes. I do two passes: S to N, and each ear to nose. Those two passes are each a combo of ATG and XTG. And I constantly buff. I suspect every square millimeter of my face gets at least ten passes. Works for me, and I don't quit until I have BBS (unless I can't hear and feel the cutting--in which case I abandon the razor)!

Cool, guys. I thought that there was a poll from not too long ago on the number and order of passes, but I couldn't find it. Does anyone know where that is, assuming that it exists?

 

[TheKman]

You know how I've been evaluating soaps, right, so that's an ongoing examination. I'm always experimenting with my homemade non-astringent toner whenever I make a new batch about once a month. The only thing that's stable for me, and actually has been this way for years, is how I use Nivea post-shave balm for sensitive skin.

Wasn't aware of the soap eval; Tried Fat'as?

Do tell about the toner, or point me to some content elsewhere. I outlined details of my process here. It's still evolving, but it includes the DIY balms that I'm still using. There may be some Nivea Sensitive lurking around in the den too but it remains untested because a) what I have has been working really well and b) I had an adverse reaction to another Nivea product.

Regarding the evolution process I do often struggle with achieving a balance between trying new stuff and maintaining enough uniformity to stay comfortable. It's really easy for me to get carried away with experiments and forget that I might be doing damage to my skin. Being willing to adopt change but still have conviction in your process isn't easy. I'm an engineer rather than a pure scientist, which gives me leave to pull on the spurs and crack the whip a little.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Wasn't aware of the soap eval; Tried Fat'as?

I'm regularly optimizing soaps with exact lathers and updating an optimum lather table. I most recently evaluated Stirling. The thread was merged by a moderator into a larger Stirling thread, but here is the latest result:

Stirling - Optimization Results, Review, Photos, Details

I haven't optimized MWF yet, but as it turns out, MWF is up next!

Do tell about the toner, or point me to some content elsewhere. I outlined details of my process here. It's still evolving, but it includes the DIY balms that I'm still using. There may be some Nivea Sensitive lurking around in the den too but it remains untested because a) what I have has been working really well and b) I had an adverse reaction to another Nivea product.

Regarding the evolution process I do often struggle with achieving a balance between trying new stuff and maintaining enough uniformity to stay comfortable. It's really easy for me to get carried away with experiments and forget that I might be doing damage to my skin. Being willing to adopt change but still have conviction in your process isn't easy. I'm an engineer rather than a pure scientist, which gives me leave to pull on the spurs and crack the whip a little.

I use a homemade non-astringent toner with aloe and stuff. No witch hazel. It's a slow work in progress that I might write about someday. (It started early on when I started with Thayers and didn't like the price, how watery it was, and how it didn't seem to do much. I felt ripped off.) Then, after doing some shave cleanup while letting the toner soak in, I put on the balm. Your balms look good. I should try something different. Even just trying Proraso White would be nice. I guess that I'm just used to the good price and ease of purchasing Nivea, but I admit that I haven't experimented much with balms. What you said about the balance between stability and experimentation/change is very true. I have to run some experiments, but GOOD experiments require controlling the variables, which I'm sure you appreciate.